TRYING TO IDENTIFY FRY -- ROSY REDS OR GOLDFISH?

[Mmathis]

First, let me say that when and if I can get pics, I will.

For the past month or so I have been finding fry at various stages of growth. Of course, I've assumed they were all goldfish. I currently have 8 (6 are maybe just < 1/2", and 2 are even smaller) in my indoor aquarium. The 2 smallest ones, I have confined to a "fry basket" so they won't get sucked into the filter intake. They are pretty active [hyper?] and remind me of the Rosy Reds, long & slender, silver-colored. The 2 in the "fry basket" are cream-colored, but that's about all I can tell about them so far.

Then yesterday, while doing some pond re-arranging, found some "eyelash" sized fry that I caught and put in with the ones in the "fry basket." These have to be goldfish, as the RR's have been in QT now for a couple of weeks.

Later in the day, I scooped up some plants from the pond and found 2 more babies [in that just < 1/2" size range]. But unlike the first batch, these 2 look and act totally different. They LOOK like miniature goldfish, and one of them appears [from searching about Shubunkin fry] to be a little shubbie. The other one is that greenish-bronze color. They also have a deeper profile that the first ones caught. And unlike the hyper little guys, these seem content nibbling off the plants. So far, they aren't socializing with the first batch.

Size-wise, the ones from that first batch and these 2 from yesterday "seem" about the same size. But not knowing how fast to expect growth to occur in either type of fish, I would be totally guessing if I said they were the same age.

TO SUMMARIZE: I have 2 that are for-sure goldies. All the ones in the "fry basket" [maybe 6 or 7, counting the "eyelashes"] are unknowns. The 6 from the original catch, I'm now starting to think might be RR's.

So...... Guess my QUESTION is, at what point in the development of fry would it be reasonable to be able to differentiate WHAT THE HECK THEY ARE?

Will eventually re-home the goldfish [but will keep any "fantails" and/or Shubies], but had already decided NOT to keep the RR's I already have, so will re-home ANY AND ALL of them. I want to be sure I'm keeping/re-homing the right ones.

 

[fishin4cars]

TM, at about a month you should be able to clearly tell between the two. RR like to school so they will group together, goldfish will single out more. BTW, Most RR start off a brownish color and get their gold/red color at about six months but some do change sooner.

 

[sissy]

Why do so many like RR is there a reason ,do they help the pond or is it because of there color .I really have never paid much attention to kinds of fish .In NJ house fountain just had goldfish that my sons won at the fair and then they had babies .I did not even know about koi until it was to late .

 

[TekWarren]

I introduced RR's to my pond this spring for mosquito and misc. larva control that the bigger fish might not bother with. Although when I bought my minnows (my research tells me RR's are just fat head minnows) only 1-3 where actually "red". I introduced two different small batches and didn't see them much this summer until recently. The last couple weeks I am seeing some much larger ones....compared to the size you buy them at...picking around the rocks, shallows, and undersides of lilly pads. I have also seen some smaller ones so they are breeding...unless they are comet fry that have survived.

To the original topic. I was/am starting to wonder if the fry I am raising indoors could be minnows also. I know they hatched from tiny yellow eggs, but I figured they where still to large to come from the minnows. I'm down to just a handful of fry maybe 6-10 in my Intex pool, I put probably a hundred in there but they have disappeared or eaten by others. Not sure if they will be big enough to put in the pond this fall or not, have around a month or so decide that or put them in an aquarium for the first winter. Mine are not generally swimming together, sometimes maybe 2 will be in the same vicinity but generally spread out.

 

[Mmathis]

Why do so many like RR is there a reason ,do they help the pond or is it because of there color .I really have never paid much attention to kinds of fish .In NJ house fountain just had goldfish that my sons won at the fair and then they had babies .I did not even know about koi until it was to late .

Sissy, I think I got them because other people said they had them. Go figure! At first, it was fun because they were more active and added another "dimension" to the pond. But they are the dickens to catch, and if they will be breeding so readily, I don't think I want them around. I don't know how many it would take to significantly add to my overall "fish inches," but more fish means more potential for disease.

 

[Mmathis]

TM, at about a month you should be able to clearly tell between the two. RR like to school so they will group together, goldfish will single out more. BTW, Most RR start off a brownish color and get their gold/red color at about six months but some do change sooner.

Larkin, thanks! The more I looked at them last night, the more convinced I became that they were RR's. So, they are now in the QT. The other 2 tiny ones (undetermined) will stay in the tank for now, but took them out of the "fry basket," as they looked just big enough to eat the "eyelashes." And the 2 for-sure goldfish & Shubie are doing and looking well. They are SO MUCH MORE CALM than those other fry!

On my way to get some brine shrimp eggs to hatch.

 

[Dave 54]

sadly we cant add RR to our pond as the winter would kill them over here
We go for Orfes instead

rgrds

Dave

 

[TekWarren]

How cold does it get there Dave? I thought fat head minnows (RR's) could withstand over-wintering? Pretty sure I read that they could, I have no plans to remove them this fall and the top layer of my pond does freeze over. (bubbler keeps the ice open)

 

[addy1]

I have rosey reds, the small preforms have some in them, no air no pump and they do freeze over. The rr's are doing just fine. Tough little fish

 

[Mmathis]

First of all, these are NOT pics of my fish. I borrowed these from the web, looking for identifiable characteristics.

Found a description of the shape & size of a minnow's dorsal fin. Tried to compare various photos with my smallest fry, but darn little things just won't cooperate by holding still long enough

I DID find another Shubunkin fry in the pond yesterday, so he's now in with the other 2 of his size as well as the 2 "mystery" fry. I only have 3 "eyelashes" left -- started out with 6 [I think].


These first 2 are what minnow dorsals look like.


These 2 are what goldfish dorsals look like. So it looks like even in the "fry" stage [how old?] there should be some visible characteristics.

 

[TekWarren]

Interesting, good identifiers. I'm in the process of trying to "trap" some smaller fish in my pond with a home made minnow trap lol. What I thought where larger sized minnows are now something else or maybe in addition to what I was seeing. I am seeing some dark/black solid fish between 1"-2" that may be gold fish fry that survived but I am seeing something else that has the colors of shubunkin! A dark fish with orange/black but they are skittish so I'm trying to trap them for a better look. I do have 4 shubunkin but I have only just added them a couple weeks ago and these "calico-ey" fish are bigger than what possible fry from them would be. I hope I can catch one to see what it is they don't stay in one spot long when picking at things along the bottom and edges of my pond.

 

[Dave 54]

How cold does it get there Dave? I thought fat head minnows (RR's) could withstand over-wintering? Pretty sure I read that they could, I have no plans to remove them this fall and the top layer of my pond does freeze over. (bubbler keeps the ice open)

Last year we went down to -10c the current trend for the UK is for our winters to get colder still acording to the global warming with hotter summers and much longer winters than we have had

rgrds

Dave

 

[Mmathis]

Interesting, good identifiers. I'm in the process of trying to "trap" some smaller fish in my pond with a home made minnow trap lol. What I thought where larger sized minnows are now something else or maybe in addition to what I was seeing. I am seeing some dark/black solid fish between 1"-2" that may be gold fish fry that survived but I am seeing something else that has the colors of shubunkin! A dark fish with orange/black but they are skittish so I'm trying to trap them for a better look. I do have 4 shubunkin but I have only just added them a couple weeks ago and these "calico-ey" fish are bigger than what possible fry from them would be. I hope I can catch one to see what it is they don't stay in one spot long when picking at things along the bottom and edges of my pond.

Interesting that you mentioned the minnow trap. I came across that in my reading and found a couple of DIY ones -- was thinking about making one. If you get there before I do, let me know if you have any luck!

You may have found baby Shubies, as they show their color very early. Of the 3 larger (1/2") babies I've captured, 2 are almost certainly Shubunkins.

 

[Fishylove]

I have silver minnows with black backs and I also have RR's. I have a couple RR fry ( 1/4 inch long) that are already the "rosey" color.
Then there is this smaller-ish minnow ( black one), that is NOT swimming around with the other minnows, it is swimming around with the black/ brown fry following it around the pond. Do minnows take care of their young? I've even seen it shoo the tiny ones under a rock or plant a few times.

 

[TekWarren]

Interesting that you mentioned the minnow trap. I came across that in my reading and found a couple of DIY ones -- was thinking about making one. If you get there before I do, let me know if you have any luck!

You may have found baby Shubies, as they show their color very early. Of the 3 larger (1/2") babies I've captured, 2 are almost certainly Shubunkins.

Today will be the second full day of the DIY minnow trap in my pond. No luck yet, I had in the shallow edge but last night moved it to the middle shelf a little deeper. I used the 2 liter pop bottle method for the DIY...cheap enough lol and using bread for bait but no interest yet...or maybe they are swimming back out!

I really don't know how I could have shubunken babies in there. The black/redish/orangish fish is about an inch long which is way bigger than a couple week old fry which is how long I've had the 4 new (and first) shubunkin in my pond. The pond had comets and they are 5-7yrs old, possibly a couple sarasa just from the color pattern but I'm not sure. I do have a black/orange Koi that has been in the pond a couple months now. Maybe he(?) fertilized some eggs and I'll have a cool looking hybrid!