Trying to simplfy a pond filter layout

[texmaster]

We are thinking about a 15x10 at about 4 feet deep pond with bottom drain but the most important thing is we are trying to limit the filtration footprint ie we will not be running a filter running behind either of the waterfalls we want. Instead, we are looking for a top of the line combo skimmer and filter for this 3000 gallon fish pond and handle the intake from the bottom drain.

Any ideas would be apprecaited.

I wanted to go Savio but they say their skimmers can only be a complete filtration for 1000 gallons.

 

[Waterbug]

The concept of any filter being for any pond of X number of gallons is at best a very general guideline. A 3000 gal pond with 50 Koi needs a much different filter system than the same pond with 10 goldfish. 10 Koi fed a few times a week needs a much different filter system than if fed 12 times a day on an auto feeder.

Filter performance is also variable. For example a moving bed type filter is expected to be about 30 times more efficient than any static submerged media like the Savio. A moving bed filter the size of a 2 liter soda bottle would be expected to out perform the Savio for bio. For small footprint mechanical I'd say a sieve filter would be hard to beat.

But if this is for a pond with a few goldfish and there are no TPRs to go with the bottom drain the options are wide open. You could pick pretty much any of the mass market filters and they would all perform about the same. It's by far the most common setup.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I think you are starting off on the wrong foot. Trying to minimize your filter system requirement is a mistake most people end up regretting later, rather you aught to be looking to oversize your filter system to eliminate any problems that might occur later as you fish population and size grows.
Rather than reduce your footprint, why not hide it. I'd suggest you look for ways to oversize and hide your filtration system, perhaps look into building a below ground pit with a removable roof that functions as a deck area.

 

[capewind]

It would likely serve you better if we understood your goals better. To SAY reduce the filter footprint can mean many things. Do you plan for plants or a bog area? What are you goals fish wise? 15 x 10 x 4 is nearly 4500 gallons, so you really have a lot of options. Laguna does make a skimmer rated to 5000 gallons, but that rating really means little, it will all depend on your total picture.

 

[koiguy1969]

all things in perspective... its better to have more filter and not neccessarily need it. than to need it and not have it. i believe theres rarely such a thing as "too much filtration.".more filtration can help compensate for lesser water volumes,and / or allow for larger fish numbers.

 

[capewind]

I am still trying to wrap my head around all the different options, and one thing I have learned is something as simple as one pump can do many jobs. Our outside system I know isnt running to capacity (work in progress), but there are multi things going on ... I could SAY all we have running is a Laguna Filter Falls 5000, on roughly 9000 gallons of volume, with roughly 50 fish (about 30 are koi, evenly sized 8" to 24") and on the surface, that isnt enough, even though we are using an 8000 gph pump, but there is a bog area with underground pvc piping, there is a small river like area (tiny), there is water trickling over rocks (smaller waterfall) ... all things work together. Not once has the pond registered ammonia or nitrites ... Once all the little projects are complete, I know our water quality will improve even more ... Where I am going with this is the wording of smaller footprint can mean multi things to different people.

 

[Waterbug]

I have heard the "you can never have too much filtering". It's a cute saying, would be a good tee shirt. But I don't think it's very practical, at least for me. I'd rather just measure what's going on and adjust as needed.

I've never been able to figure out how people know they have more filter than needed. If ammonia is zero how does one know that only 20% of filters are being used or 95%? I guess they just "know".

 

[sissy]

test kit reads good, water looks good, fish look healthy, well must be enough .simple to me . :razz:

 

[koiguy1969]

you dont need to know how much of your filters being used as long as things are going fine. but, if your parameters are about 'borderline' your likely alot closer to the 95% line. and what if you start feeding more? and / or add more fish?. i'd rather have a filter thats probably only using 20%. the whole point is ...TOO MUCH FILTRATION ISNT A PROBLEM...BUT NOT ENOUGH CAN BE AND LIKELY WILL BE. THUSLY.. in general.. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH FILTRATION. not many people decrease their filtration because their water is just too clean and healthy. 'over filtering' your pond just plain out gives you much more leeway in fish numbers, feeding, etc. and by fitration i'm including any kind of veggy filtration you can provide as well.
**maybe its just me, but i'd rather build or buy if your so inclined one filter, and be reasonably assured its gonna do the job. even if i add fish, or decide to substantially increase my feeding for any reason. like me, every year i go from 5 fish in my pond to 200 or even more. even tho the added fish are 1" - 3" ..200 of them added is gonna increase the bioload.

 

[texmaster]

I'm sorry for not being clear. We don't want to limit the size of the filter. We want to limit the amount of filters. ie one filter + skimmer. Looking for a larger all in one unit for simplicity than a skimmer plus flilter setup.

We've got no problem going oversized. Just looking for the best solution and limit the amount of filters in number. A combo skimmer/filter would be best.

We are planning on plants and about 20 fish

 

[capewind]

Not counting a small bog area (no plants at the moment), mini river (tiny) and waterfalls (only one running over rocks), we are running just a Laguna Filter Falls 5000 on our ponds with an 8000 gph pump (split) ... currently, it's 6500 plus a connected 2500 gallon pond. The 2500 gallon pond will eventually become a bog, but for now, the pond is 9000 gallons in total. Hubby wants to add the Laguna Skimmer 5000 as well. As is however, with lots of fish (about 30 koi, evenly sized from 8" to 24" in the 6500 gallon area, and maybe 2 dozen comets and shubunkins, average size of 8-9" in the 2500 gallon area), I havent yet come off of ZERO for ammonia or nitrites (last tested today) ... No added carbon, etc in the Filter Falls 5000, just running it as it came from the box a year ago...

Correction ... hubby just said he added filter floss, and I forgot there is a small UV too in line to the small water fall ...

 

[Waterbug]

For me I would not want to have a pond that had lots of filters for no apparent use. I'm not really a filter collector. I know for many people filters are a big part of the fun for them. I'm just not one of them, sorry. My fun is more in the oppose direction, what's the least amount of effort that would be needed to keep a pond the way a person wants. That's my interest. However, I don't see a need to tell people that my way is the only way.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

We are thinking about a 15x10 at about 4 feet deep pond with bottom drain but the most important thing is we are trying to limit the filtration footprint ie we will not be running a filter running behind either of the waterfalls we want. Instead, we are looking for a top of the line combo skimmer and filter for this 3000 gallon fish pond and handle the intake from the bottom drain.

Any ideas would be apprecaited.

I wanted to go Savio but they say their skimmers can only be a complete filtration for 1000 gallons.

I've seen "combo skimmer/filters" before, but none that would also draw from a bottom drain. If you, or anybody, find one please post a link, I'd be interested to see how it works.

 

[texmaster]

I've seen "combo skimmer/filters" before, but none that would also draw from a bottom drain. If you, or anybody, find one please post a link, I'd be interested to see how it works.

You are right it is very hard. The biggest one I found so far is this one:

http://www.underwaterwarehouse.com/...s/EasyPro-Pro-Series-Large-Skimmer-p-891.html

But as you said no bottom drain feeder

I will probably end up going with a large Savio skimmer attached to a Savio living ponds filter. Ugh. Did not want two pieces to deal with! Also, where do you put your pumps in this kind of a system? In the skimmer or after the living ponds filter?

 

[texmaster]

The two biggest requirements we have are no waterfall filter and underground. We want nothing above ground.