Water loss during night?

[dinm]

I had finished a stream about a week or two ago, then had a leak cause the liner got pierced. No more leaks, but I still wake up with lower water level every day, it's not something big, but there still seems to be some sort of water loss. I don't notice it during the day, only after I wake up, not sure whether its wind during the night or a genuine leak. I thought if it was a leak, then it'd drain a whole lot faster. When I had a leak in the stream liner the thing almost drained the whole pond. Or it may be capillary action, the pond liner is under the stream liner so water could I suppose somehow get there.

Not sure how much exactly it is, I think about 0.7 inch or something like that. I thought maybe during the night the wind causes water loss, but maybe it just creeps up on me and I don't notice it.

I don't think I have a leak in the actual pond though, don't see any kind of dirt or slit coming up at all, but it could be.

 

[addy1]

This time of year I lose water everyday. About 1 to 2 inches.

I do have a huge bog with plants that suck the water out. And winds and we have been terribly dry and hot. All equal water loss.

 

[dinm]

This time of year I lose water everyday. About 1 to 2 inches.

I do have a huge bog with plants that suck the water out. And winds and we have been terribly dry and hot. All equal water loss.

Turned out there was a low edge, but a low edge that did not spill all the water out but only a little bit at a time on both sides of the stream. Hope that solves it, but we'll see, need to get some geotextile to put before adding gravel once more. I should have had the stream a bit more deep, it's very shallow but it is what it is for now, I just needed something to make it look more natural.

 

[dinm]

Haven't noticed much change since then, but the underlayment seems to be wet, so the overlap must not be proper and some water clearly ends up there, but it seems not much, maybe it's just capillary action, I basically have a flat rock near the end of the stream liner, so that I can disguise it easier, I'm thinking some water might end up going down the other way of the flat stone.

 

[GBBUDD]

Turned out there was a low edge, but a low edge that did not spill all the water out but only a little bit at a time on both sides of the stream. Hope that solves it, but we'll see, need to get some geotextile to put before adding gravel once more. I should have had the stream a bit more deep, it's very shallow but it is what it is for now, I just needed something to make it look more natural.

Careful with fabric it can wick water right out up and over the edge of the liner.

 

[dinm]

Still losing water. A lot more less, but I still lose water somewhere. The underlayment seems a bit wet, so something's going on here. Maybe I ought to remove the flat rock where water comes in. It's just interesting to me that it's a thing I only notice in the mornings. It's not a lot of water loss which is annoying, so I don't know if it could be evaporation, but then again I haven't had water loss like this until I built the stream. Don't seem to be any low edges and last time I checked the stream liner holds water with no leaks, so must be some wicking action here where the water goes in the pond and somehow gets under the two liners. Very annoying. The rocks make it even harder to diagnose the issue, so I get hesitant to think it's an issue with the stream liner.

 

[GBBUDD]

Most leaks are from waterfalls andskimmers where they drop fro. O e layer to the next or around the termination strip. You can get Condensation on the outside of the rubber that can make one feel moisture.

 

[dinm]

Most leaks are from waterfalls andskimmers where they drop fro. O e layer to the next or around the termination strip. You can get Condensation on the outside of the rubber that can make one feel moisture.

Not really sure... there's water under the stream liner, yet I am not sure where it comes. Whether it is capillary action, or whether it's an actual hole in the stream liner. I had tested it a week ago, and it held water, then again it could be a small hole so it wouldn't drain very fast. But I'm gonna test again in a few hrs and see what happens, that would rule out the stream liner being pierced. When I did have a pierced stream liner, it would drain 70% of the pond over night, that I fixed. Water loss currently is small, but still notable.

 

[GBBUDD]

Does your stream liner tuck under a water fall liner it's at that point or splash that's usually the issue. When power is off I'd expect the stream to stay put .

 

[dinm]

Does your stream liner tuck under a water fall liner it's at that point or splash that's usually the issue. When power is off I'd expect the stream to stay put .

Yeah, the pond liner is under the stream liner. It is wet, which I don't think it should be, but underlayment is wet near the beginning of the stream too, not too wet but it is wet, so the water could flow down and make that part wet.

 

[GBBUDD]

How far do they overlap each other. Verticly and horizontaly ...Picture do wonders

 

[dinm]

I removed the liner an hour ago, cause the underlayment was wet, it seemed it got pierced somewhere. Not hard to do I guess when you have river rock. And the river rock is mostly smooth, so it's not like I was putting in glass pieces in there. But there's no way this was some sort of splashing action or capillary action. You can see it's quite wet. Been pierced from when I put gravel in I suppose, it seems quite easy to get this thing pierced. How I have went 5 months now, and 7 before that with a gravel pond and no piercing is beyond me, but it seems much easier to pierce a shallow stream with a liner than a deep one, though I guess both ways can go bad it's just matter of how its placed.

Now I am not sure what to do, I returned the filter to where it was, so it's now working anyways, I don't think I have liner left for this. Now I am just hoping by doing this much work around the pond, I did not pierce the actual pond bottom, because I walked there several times. I guess the goal here is to find EPDM liner or use pvc but use geotextile so that even if i walked on the gravel it would not pierce anything, or maybe someone could suggest some alternative liners other than PVC but I know of none other.

Gonna just go slow from here cause I'm just wasting time doing the same thing over and over again. It's clear that gravel pierced it, so it is not worth it for me to do it again without planning it out. Next time, whenever I do it I will flatten this "stream", and look how to do it properly.

This first image is the underlayment, 2nd without anything.

 

[GBBUDD]

In my opinion never use vinyl or pvc. Vinyl is common for lined pools but people freak when you have a belt on and why is thT because it is weak .
Epdm is most common or hdrpe is next. If you get a 8 Oz geotextile or thicker like a 12 Oz that is some very tough stuff and I can't see river rock even one that has split in two being able to cut through. So fabric liner fabric is one tough sandwich. And a solid insurance against leaks

 

[dinm]

In my opinion never use vinyl or pvc. Vinyl is common for lined pools but people freak when you have a belt on and why is thT because it is weak .
Epdm is most common or hdrpe is next. If you get a 8 Oz geotextile or thicker like a 12 Oz that is some very tough stuff and I can't see river rock even one that has split in two being able to cut through. So fabric liner fabric is one tough sandwich. And a solid insurance against leaks

PVC is the only thing here being marketed for pond liners. I am probably gonna go with geotextile as underlayment before putting in gravel. Gonna dig the stream out a bit so it's a bit deeper and properly level. Will be using PVC liner still, but it should basically be another layer with the geotextile so there's no way it gets ripped even if I would walk on it.

The pond is lined with PVC, I am surprised how well it has held up. I've had it in the previous iteration of it which was small and it went fine for 7 months and then I decided to rebuild and expand, the expanded pond is at 5 months now doing fine. At some point it might pierce, by accident probably, but until then there's no alternative.

 

[dinm]

I received the geotextile today, and have rebuilt the stream. It looks quite a lot different, in a good way, I removed as much slopes as I could cause what mattered was that water flowed down to the pond, and it's easier to place rocks.

I put down the geotextile fabric first, then PVC liner, then geotextile once more. I am definitely gonna get some more geotextile, no longer am I gonna be using some nylon sheets or tarp for underlayment, because geotextile's quite easy to handle and nice to touch.

There are no leaks, it seems, but I suppose when you get burned once the paranoia never stops so I am gonna be on the look out. The gravel is not touching the liner directly, so it should be better. The sides have now rocks, no gravel there, the ground is pea gravel. I've also dug a deeper hole for the filter which I am gonna see if I can make a fake rock to cover it since its not that big of an issue now. Geotextile wasn't as heavy duty as I thought, not even sure what strength it is.

Well, just hoping there's not a leak now, but I left it for about half an hour and it didn't drain out which is good. I guess I'd have more flow toward the pond if it were all downhill properly, currently it pools in certain areas, but I don't care much about that, it's good enough that it looks a whole lot more natural than without one.

One of the issues I am having is where the filter gets the water into the stream, there it's fine for now, but I am not entirely sure how to make it a 100% resistant to the liner wicking, currently that does not happen but its quite close. Take some tinkering I think.

Hoping that there is no leak now, when I tested in the beginning, the underlayment was not wet so a good sign, but with PVC liner it seems it much has to do with creases and dumb things like that. Was looking around for an EPDM liner, no luck.