What should my next step be?

sissy

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I get bubbles but they are from aerator so big difference .I sometimes wonder about uv.s but never had one so don't know ,some swear by them and others swear at them .They spent all that money on them and claim they don't work .Some foam i have seen from pretty powerful pumps at the pond store here plus they have huge waterfalls that splash and cause it ,just air in the water .Like addy says you fuss to much you may drive your self crazy or give up ponding and you can't do that .
 
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Thanks for the visual addy1.

I tested the water again today, outside in the sunlight, for more accurate recognition of color in tubes.

Ammonia...ZERO...Yahoo!
PH.............6.9
Both GH and KH reacted with one drop. According to the directions in the kit, 1 drop equals 18 ppm. Pretty soft, not much of a buffer. (I'm learning)
Water temp is 54. Last night I read it to be 44...apparently I need glasses

The water is definitely clearing, little by little. Today I can see the pebbles on the bottom.

So tonights homework is to read up on PH buffering.

Waterbug- In regards to conditions, pond history, equipment and pond capacity...I dont know. I only jumped into this about two weeks ago. I'm sure that as time progresses I will gain new insights. Without knowing the ponds capacity, I'm guessing that I cannot know exactly how much product to add to create the buffer. Would it be safe to assume that without knowing the capacity I can still just add some baking soda and calcium chloride each day until my readings are where I would like them to be?
 
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Waterbug- In regards to conditions, pond history, equipment and pond capacity...I dont know. I only jumped into this about two weeks ago. I'm sure that as time progresses I will gain new insights. Without knowing the ponds capacity, I'm guessing that I cannot know exactly how much product to add to create the buffer. Would it be safe to assume that without knowing the capacity I can still just add some baking soda and calcium chloride each day until my readings are where I would like them to be?
Few people know the exact capacity of their pond, an estimate is normally good enough. Having an idea of capacity give you another point of reference. Like if you have a 4000 gal pond and low KH you know the ballpark amount of baking soda is 8 pounds. If you didn't have that info and were testing water incorrectly, or bad test kit, you could add 80 pounds and not see KH move. The common issue is the other side. Many people can't bring themselves to believe adding pounds of baking soda to a pond can be a good thing. It is strange. So they add 1/4 cup to 4000 gals, don't see any change and throw up their hands and say that didn't work.

When it comes to throwing deicer into pond...just not intuitive. And to read up on a subject...forget about it.
 
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WB- As for the actual products I need to create a buffer...

Just regular Arm & Hammer Baking Soda? And for the calcium chloride...it sounds like that is a product used for multiple uses, but will often have extra ingredients in its formulation. Do I need to review an MSDS on a product? Or do you have a safe, cheap and readily available suggestion?
 

addy1

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You can buy big bags of baking soda, 10 lbs, cheap at costco. I threw in quite a few big bags of the stuff trying to get my ph to stabilize. It would work for a while, but the ph would crash back down over time, luckily no fish in the pond. After the first feeder group died we did not add any until we got this issue fixed. The addition of the crushed oyster shells finally made my hardness go up and the ph stabilize. I did not try calcium chloride or other additives.
 

sissy

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you never know it may work and it may not and all you have is dead fish .I have never had a problem with my ph since adding the oyster shell either and since I have ever only lost one fish (he jumped out during spawning my fault did not have the net on ) it has been over 8 years and seems they are happy fish and i have 13 fish in an 8 by 18 foot pond a little over 4 feet deep i think that is pretty good .I really think the oyster shells work the best and i think most people on here use them and not sure but wonder if they do more for the water than they say ,
 
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Just regular Arm & Hammer Baking Soda?
Yes. Any baking grade baking soda. I've never seen one with additives, but if you ran into one I'd skip it.

And for the calcium chloride...it sounds like that is a product used for multiple uses, but will often have extra ingredients in its formulation. Do I need to review an MSDS on a product? Or do you have a safe, cheap and readily available suggestion?
I'm not sure the MSDS has the percentages of ingredients, but normally it'll be on the label or web page if purchased online. I don't know if it's a law but all sources I've seen list the ingredients and percentage. In another thread I think a person found some with 2 or 3 other ingredients, like potash I think. Check out each to see if there's any danger and at what level.

Almost all these things produce salt, so you have to have a good idea you're not adding too much salt. For example, baking soda produces salt after reacting. Doing the computations (not me, but a real chemist named Dr Roddy on Koiphen) a level of 10,000 ppm KH with baking soda could result in too high a salt level for fish. 10,000 ppm is crazy high, so really, baking soda is hardly worth worrying about. A deicer could have high salt, but unlikely these days. Different products have different percentages of calcium chloride, which is what you're after. When doing your estimates you take the percentage into account. Like if you found something with 50% calcium chloride the estimate would be to add 2 pounds per 1000 gals. 100% calcium chloride would be 1 pound per 1000 gals. That's ballpark of course.

The GH is less important than the KH. And the KH is less important if pH isn't swinging. For all I know your pond could be stable at 6.9 and really, if it stayed stable and you were willing to test daily, you could stay there and not add KH. Originally, the 6.5 pH was too low for the bacteria so that was an issue. Having the buffer just makes a keepers life simpler. So what I'm saying is if you're wanting to raise KH I would not wait on being ready to raise GH. That can be done later. KH will reduce most of the pH swing, if it is swinging, which I'd bet it is.

Over long periods of time salt can build up in a pond, as well as many other minerals. This is almost never an actual issue with normal water gardens. In fish loads it could be a problem, but they do water changes often for other issues so mineral build up would not be an issue. But on the other hand, someone like me in the desert and 6% humidity I can't just totally forget about water changes. Somewhere down the line you should consider trickle water changes. That's where you have an overflow and use a drip head 24/7 into the pond to do a 10% weekly water change. It evens everything out a bit.

Of course most of this is about improving conditions, not about saving the fishes lives this week. Koi and goldfish can take a lot and most have to. My guess is probably fewer than 10% of pond keepers have ever test their water. Most of them don't really have any idea what the numbers mean. You'll hear things like "my pond water is good and the fish are healthy" when actually the fish are going through hell and in a few years they're pushed over the edge, die and no one can figure out why. Not judging, I had fish for lunch. Humans use animals. Koi and goldfish were specifically created by humans to be used with little consideration for them. But a little effort reduces the chance of having to see pets die every 4 or 5 years. Just wanted to give a little perspective on why anyone would go to this trouble when thousands of people never have any problem with their pond...always perfect...until it isn't of course.
 
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Update...

I have been slowly adding baking soda to increase PH and KH. My ammonia levels are still at zero. PH is now at 7.5, KH is at 80 ppm, GH is still basically at zero ppm. Once I attain my desired PH and KH I will add some calcium chloride to raise the general hardness. The weather has been fantastic for the last week...nice and warm. The pond temp is now at 65 degrees. The fish seem happy and active...and hungry. I have also noticed two new little fish. Maybe the word is out that the party is in my pond.

I have noticed that the pond liner is starting to accumulate a layer of green/brown silt of scum or something. Also the water is starting to get slightly more green. Not bad, but just something that I am noticing.

Two questions...I assume that due to the increased temperatures that more algae is forming. Correct? Do I need to do anything? And second question is do I need to take a brush and agitate the film from the liner to help it to get through the pump and filter?

And lastly, I tried to take some action to help plug some of the minor leakage from the waterfall. I took all of the loose rocks out of the falls and sprayed it down really well. I used 2 cans of great Stuff Pond & Stone (overkill, I thought) and filled (overfilled) the cracks around and between the larger rocks. Before I trimmed off the excess, I wanted to make sure no leaks. Just the opposite. Actually there is MORE leakage out of the back of the falls. AARRGGHH! Whatever! I just need to enjoy the process.
 

addy1

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ntscott, the great stuff does not do a water tight seal it will seep water. I use the pl roofing cement, goop black if I want a watertight seal.

like sissy says the green algae on your liner is good stuff, carpet algae.
 
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I'd be interested to know the pH range. When people say pH is X it's often misleading. In most ponds pH moves, how much is much more important than one number.

Algae and waterfall repair are really big subjects all on their own.
 
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I would have to say that at this moment the PH range is 7.3 - 7.5. I have tested twice a day for the last 3 or 4 days. The only time it read the 7.3 was this morning. Yesterday I added water. I assume that the added water that has a much lower PH brought the rest of the pond slightly lower.
 
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I assume that the added water that has a much lower PH brought the rest of the pond slightly lower.
Hard to tell without numbers. If you can keep KH in a tight range you could keep pH stable at the current range. That is how people keep pH in a range below 8.3. Trick is keeping the KH stable since the pond will always be so close to a pH crash. The 8.3 pH scheme just gives more of a buffer.
 
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I just tested the tap water. The PH was higher than I assumed, 7.0 I know that is just a snapshot WB but I was expecting 5.5 or so. The TOTAL ammonia level is .5ppm (surprising) but according to the handy dandy charts it has.002ppm NH3. GH and KH are soft as a baby's bottom; no detectable hardness.

I am still adding some baking soda every day or two to slowly raise PH and create the buffer with some hardness by raising KH. Right now the pond's KH is still at about 80 ppm. I'd like to see that at about 150ppm.
 
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The ammonia reading could be from the break down of chloramine. The pH of soft water can be all over the place as the level of CO2 can vary a lot. For example leaving tap water out in a glass for an hour can increase the pH as CO2 levels normalize with the air. There are a lot of variables which is why I like the 8,3 pH buffering scheme. Easier.
 

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