Help with setting up x2 150g Rubbermaid stock tanks/ponds in Phoenix heat

[SheenaInPhx]

Hello everyone! I am looking to find some friendly people who may be able to help me along in my journey of setting up x2 150g stock tanks outside in Phoenix AZ.

I have been an aquarist for several years and have a business here at home growing and raising/breeding several different types of fish, snails, shrimp, and plants. I recently had an opportunity that I seized, and got x2 150g rubbermaid stock tanks that I want to use outside to do what I already do inside. I know they're not exactly "Ponds" in the professional sense of having something huge and gorgeous, but I am really hoping to use them to their fullest potential. I will be using sand as a substrate at the bottom and growing plants planted below and above.

But I have lots of questions, and don't want to have to learn the hard way here in this heat if I can avoid it.

So, I have not set them up yet as I want to get some ideas and input first. Both will have partial shade under some White Popinac "Leucaena leucocephala" trees but will be set up in 2 different locations. I also know these are messy trees for part of the year when they drop their poofs(technical term), what can I do to help minimize the mess in the pond? My husband doesn't want me putting up shade cloth or barriers above because of monsoon season.

The first "pond" I want to have at the end of our driveway closest to the house. We have a patio curtain dividing the carport from the driveway and I want to set it up right next to the curtain on the concrete. Would this be a bad idea because the concrete gets so hot? It will also be a couple feet away from a block wall on one side. The trees grow against the way though, so that's also where the densest shade is. Is there any way I could make this work, perhaps by putting something under the stock tank before filling it?

The second will be to the side in the yard where there is just dirt , right next to my tortoise enclosure. Still with partial tree coverage. Will it be fine set up in the dirt, or will it need something under it?

I'm wanting to breed fish and grow plants in these, and I know I want Gambusia in one of them because my customers are always asking for them. I was considering some type of Goldfish in the other, perhaps Orandas because they stay smaller, but not sure if they could deal with the heat. And I think I may want to lean towards more plant friendly inhabitants so that I don't have to be picky with what I try to grow. What else could I do besides Gambusia that would readily breed? I already breed Guppies inside. I have heard of people breeding Neocaridina in tubs outside, but not sure if I could do that with my temps, but would love to if possible. Any input would be appreciated.

The heat is my main concern, but I will be utilizing floaters to shade the water in addition to the partial shade the ponds will get from the trees.

Also, my husband is an electrician, but I don't want him to have to do too much. What is the safest and easiest way to supply power to these areas? Digging a trench and running conduit is not an option. Would something as simple as a heavy duty extension cord work with a weatherproof box where the plug would connect work? I will more than likely be utilizing pumps attached to sponge filters, and then heaters in the winter since these are smaller set ups.

Any and all input is appreciated!

 

[RMaynard]

At least in RI it is code to use UF direct burial wire without conduit for a simple feeder circuit.

I would not use extension cords for "permanent" use... they will not last through years of exposure to the elements. I would be surprised if your husband signed off on that, too.

 

[SheenaInPhx]

Thanks for the reply! I don't know the what the code here is, but my husband would. I just know that I'm looking for the least invasive/least labor intensive approach.

I'm just trying to figure out the easiest approach without having to burden him. I would rather him not have to have something else to worry about. So looking for an easy but still safe idea that I could manage myself or something that he could do, but wouldn't take up too much of his time.

 

[WaterGardener]

I don't understand the opposition to shade sails because of monsoon season. Why would that be a problem?

I would think you would need to do pretty frequent water changes to keep the water from getting too hot. Goldfish are really cool water fish, so I don't know how well they would handle that much heat. Maybe tropical fish would do better there?

 

[JRS]

Welcome to the forum!

I agree on the shade sails, just the sun beating down on the gray plastic in my zone causes the tub to be very hot to the touch. During the height of a mere Wisconsin heat wave, the water temps. in my 300 gallon freestanding turtle tubs were getting to 90+ degrees at the surface in the late afternoon in full sun. Adding any direct sun to your higher air temperatures would be very warm. Extra aeration can help with O2 levels.

Probably the best thing to do since there are so many factors with your location, amount of sun and shade, would be to set them up and see what you are getting for temps. You could use an outdoor extension cord initially until you figure out for sure if they would work in your desired locations. Setting the tub up on dirt is fine, I have even dug them into the ground partially to allow an elevation change for one to flow into the other.

Just about any fish that can handle the temps. would do good or better than in the aquarium. I have bred bristlenose catfish and kept mollies and platies over the summer in my ponds. Although my issue is the cold not the heat. Aquarium plants that have done well outside for me include Bacopa monneri and Echinodorous cordifolius.

 

[j.w]

@SheenaInPhx
I'm just not sure about all that heat down there in AZ! Maybe you can trickle water in during the day when it's really hot? Don't know what this will do to your water bill tho.

 

[BenB]

We've had small ponds in Phoenix for a few decades now. I have goldfish and Koi in them, nothing else. My in-ground pond is 300 gallons. I put 4 4X10 boards, I forget what type those are called, not just regular lumber, in the ground and put up nursery grade screen over it to keep the direct sunlight off of it. We now have 2 pumps and filters going on it because the fish have gotten very large. I also have a UV filter to keep the algae out of it. Personally would suggest some kind of shading to keep the pond water from getting too hot.

 

[SheenaInPhx]

We've had small ponds in Phoenix for a few decades now. I have goldfish and Koi in them, nothing else. My in-ground pond is 300 gallons. I put 4 4X10 boards, I forget what type those are called, not just regular lumber, in the ground and put up nursery grade screen over it to keep the direct sunlight off of it. We now have 2 pumps and filters going on it because the fish have gotten very large. I also have a UV filter to keep the algae out of it. Personally would suggest some kind of shading to keep the pond water from getting too hot.

I do agree with the nessesity for some type of shading. I may build a shade structure of some type. What percentage of shade cloth did you use? I've used 50% for my garden area on the side for my veggies, but not sure what would be appropriate for the ponds.

What type of Goldfish do you keep? Most of my customers seem to have Comets but I don't have the space for, or want those type.

 

[SheenaInPhx]

View attachment 158623 @SheenaInPhx
I'm just not sure about all that heat down there in AZ! Maybe you can trickle water in during the day when it's really hot? Don't know what this will do to your water bill tho.

I know plenty of people who are successful, and I have pond customers almost daily, so I know it can be achieved. I just need to figure out how. Lol. I may implement some type of waterfall feature at some point, but that would be later down the road.

 

[SheenaInPhx]

Welcome to the forum!

I agree on the shade sails, just the sun beating down on the gray plastic in my zone causes the tub to be very hot to the touch. During the height of a mere Wisconsin heat wave, the water temps. in my 300 gallon freestanding turtle tubs were getting to 90+ degrees at the surface in the late afternoon in full sun. Adding any direct sun to your higher air temperatures would be very warm. Extra aeration can help with O2 levels.

Probably the best thing to do since there are so many factors with your location, amount of sun and shade, would be to set them up and see what you are getting for temps. You could use an outdoor extension cord initially until you figure out for sure if they would work in your desired locations. Setting the tub up on dirt is fine, I have even dug them into the ground partially to allow an elevation change for one to flow into the other.

Just about any fish that can handle the temps. would do good or better than in the aquarium. I have bred bristlenose catfish and kept mollies and platies over the summer in my ponds. Although my issue is the cold not the heat. Aquarium plants that have done well outside for me include Bacopa monneri and Echinodorous cordifolius.

Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it. I may do just that. Filing them up to monitor temps is a fantastic idea. My only problem is I know we are goi g to get hotter than what we are right now. It's commonplace to see 116+ degrees here in a few weeks. So I don't know how relevant my numbers right now would be. But it would still help to see what the difference is ambient wise compared to the water.

I suppose I really need to figure out what I'll be able to do shade wise. I was hoping the trees would be enough. Once I set them up that should give me a better idea of what the temp range will be. Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[SheenaInPhx]

I don't understand the opposition to shade sails because of monsoon season. Why would that be a problem?

I would think you would need to do pretty frequent water changes to keep the water from getting too hot. Goldfish are really cool water fish, so I don't know how well they would handle that much heat. Maybe tropical fish would do better there?

Most of my customers do Comets and Koi. But I'm not working in the size range, so I know Goldies are a possibility. I was told as long as my ponds are at least 2 feet deep I can make it work. But again, not set on the Goldfish for sure, though I do miss having Orandas. They have such great personalities. : )

The opposition to shade sails is because he thinks they will get in the way during a monsoon and get torn up or cause whatever they are anchored to to get torn up. But I believe the whole point of them is that they allow the air to pass through, correct?

Do you have any specific recommendations for the type of shade sail? I'm not sure if they are all the same density, or some are more UV resistant. I have absolutely zero experience with them. If I do go that route, am I going to be wanting to cover the entire thing, or aim for partial coverage since I'm wanting to do this to mainly grow plants? Thanks!

 

[BenB]

I do agree with the nessesity for some type of shading. I may build a shade structure of some type. What percentage of shade cloth did you use? I've used 50% for my garden area on the side for my veggies, but not sure what would be appropriate for the ponds.

What type of Goldfish do you keep? Most of my customers seem to have Comets but I don't have the space for, or want those type.

I don't know the percentage, I bought it from a guy going out of business. He just referred to it as nursery grade. It cut's out the sunlight quite a bit tho. I bought Comets, little bitty ones, they are 10 inches long now. I am more in love with Koi, I've had them allow me to touch them.

 

[WaterGardener]

I would think that the 2 foot depth that was referred to would be 2 feet in the ground, not above ground. If you buried those tanks it would be a big help.

The shade sails we have came from Costco. Rain goes through them, but I wouldn't think much wind would. We have some pretty good winds and storms here, 50 to 60 mph winds at times and they have never been a problem. But they are well anchored to the corners of the house or to trees.

We also use shade cloth that is commonly used on greenhouses. We choose to get it in white instead of the usual black.

Have you researched breeding orandas or any of the smaller goldfish? Do you have a place to keep and grow out the fry? Are you prepared to cull the majority of the offspring? It's an awful lot of work and not necessarily successful. Obviously it is possible, but not easy and not quick.

 

[Hound Heaven]

I love shade cloth - I lived in Cottonwood for 25 years and had it all over the place. Over my garden, my windows, my porch, my dogs pool - you name it. I bought the 75 % or higher beige and attached it to pvc or wood or tied it to something solid. It made a HUGE difference and it lasted for 15 years. I had orandas, fantails and asst. other fancy goldfish in a 3 foot deep, in ground pond with straight sides. My only regret is that I didn't build myself a bog or know about this forum as a reference. Best of luck.

 

[SheenaInPhx]

I would think that the 2 foot depth that was referred to would be 2 feet in the ground, not above ground. If you buried those tanks it would be a big help.

The shade sails we have came from Costco. Rain goes through them, but I wouldn't think much wind would. We have some pretty good winds and storms here, 50 to 60 mph winds at times and they have never been a problem. But they are well anchored to the corners of the house or to trees.

We also use shade cloth that is commonly used on greenhouses. We choose to get it in white instead of the usual black.

Have you researched breeding orandas or any of the smaller goldfish? Do you have a place to keep and grow out the fry? Are you prepared to cull the majority of the offspring? It's an awful lot of work and not necessarily successful. Obviously it is possible, but not easy and not quick.

Thanks so much for all the info! I really appreciate the details. I ended up using window screen connected to some wood in the front and back that I can roll open and closed. It's just temporary, but I needed something to keep the debris out and provide some shade. I do not have the ability to bury these ponds, we flood badly during monsoon season and I wouldn't even want to imagine what that would do to something like this. I also have dogs that would be much to excited to hop in these if they were in the ground. Lol.

I already have experience successfully breeding Orandas for years now inside, so I'm not concerned about any of that. I have over 30 tanks inside from 5 gallons to 200 gallons. I'm an experienced aquarist, and this is my full time job, I've just never done anything outdoors . For now I just have Mosquito fish in both ponds and I'm happy with that.