.060 edpm roofing membrane for a pond

Discussion in 'DIY - Do It Yourself' started by GBBUDD, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. GBBUDD

    GBBUDD

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    Why is it that almost every pond I have seen built has used 45 mil edpm ... why not use 60 or 90 for that matter especially if your placing rock inside the pond on the liner. Yes I see some place underlayment on top of the rubber under the stone. so why not go thicker to 60 mil
     
    GBBUDD, Jan 3, 2018
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    Lisak1

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    I think it's been discussed before that the thicker liner is more difficult to manage with folds and so forth. Perhaps not as big of an issue in bigger ponds, but in your typical garden pond it might be cumbersome. Plus 45 mil is pretty tough stuff - any thicker is really overkill.
     
    Lisak1, Jan 3, 2018
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  3. GBBUDD

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    what Lisa said...the cost of the liner was the largest material investment I made. 45 mil is fine, in most cases.
     
    brokensword, Jan 3, 2018
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  4. GBBUDD

    GBBUDD

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    unfortunately I know myself all to well. I also know edpm pretty well after being a general contractor for 25 years I always opted for 060 clearly a better product. And seeing as I will be building effectively stone walls within this liner mason hammer, grinder , trowels of all shapes and sizes, lowering 300 and 400 pound stones into the pond on the liner. even if placed on fabric on rubber on fabric. I know for a fact a couple roofs I did back in the 80's with 060 are still going strong. 090 I would have to agree with you there lisa that stuff does not like to "wrap" around angles well. I found 060 almost self sealing . but it's draw back is I believe 30 is it's widest. and I need 35 to 40 so i'd have to seem where I'm not worried about but its additional work and would have to set it up down the driveway on ply or boards.
     
    GBBUDD, Jan 4, 2018
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  5. GBBUDD

    Lisak1

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    You have way more experience with EPDM than I do, that's for sure! But I will tell you the strategies we used to protect our liner from heavy rocks.

    1. we made sure there was no stress on the liner - never ever allow it to be pulled taut. Always allow a little slack, especially where there will be rocks (which in my pond was everywhere!) and

    2. we used scrap pieces of underlayment and liner to move the big rocks and just set them down right on top of the scraps to add some additional padding. We also used granite boulders to rock the pond, so there were no sharp edges to worry about.

    Seams scare me - but lots of people have done it successfully.
     
    Lisak1, Jan 4, 2018
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  6. GBBUDD

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    I used Bend tarp and liner, some real tough stuff. A lot lighter in weight then epdm and does not get as slick.

    Screenshot-2018-1-4 BTL-liners-Liner-Comparison-Chart-03 2014 pdf.png
     
    addy1, Jan 4, 2018
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  7. GBBUDD

    GBBUDD

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    I'm leaning that way Lisa Looking at underlayment, rubber, underlayment. Then build the walls. I have built many a flat roof using edpm I just always opted for the 060. The 45 seemed cheap in comparison. I don't see any difference in roofing compared to pond liner other then if it has fire treating or an algaecide.

    Addy I have seen and used RPE its a bit stiff I have some pretty sharp angles that are rounded . RPE'S most limited in these lines. addy do you go for a swim in your pond I read the bog post and I don't remember seeing that you do.

    One trouble spot I'm seeing is having a main drain and 3/8 stone in the bog area of the pond. even placing some say 2" to 3" river rock will keep most of the 3/8 from being sucked in but it won't keep it all out. even keeping the space at 3/8" won't stop stones from working there way into the pipe. haven't found a strainer that will work with the MD aerator.
    The helix SKIMMER is nice due to it's low profile of two inches the helix floating cup is a nice little trick but I don't like seeing into the skimmer and seeing a white or gray basket or plate. why aren't these black ? damn expensive plastic Tupperware bowl.
     
    GBBUDD, Jan 5, 2018
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  8. GBBUDD

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    I am in the water a lot over the summer grooming the plants, not technically swimming. Too many lilies. The fish nibble on you constantly. Sort of tickles.
     
    addy1, Jan 5, 2018
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  9. GBBUDD

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    You can get that for plastic spray paint. I used it on my pvc pipes in the pond to blend them in. The paint is still doing great years later. HD and Lowes carry it.
     
    addy1, Jan 5, 2018
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  10. GBBUDD

    Lisak1

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    I don’t know that I understand the issue completely but can you put the pipes open side down?
     
    Lisak1, Jan 5, 2018
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  11. GBBUDD

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    All of my pipes are open side down, bog pipes. I think a drain is being put into the bog, trying to keep the pea gravel out of it, I think..................
     
    addy1, Jan 5, 2018
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  12. GBBUDD

    Lisak1

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    That's what I was gathering, too... and since we both agree, we must be right! haha!
     
    Lisak1, Jan 5, 2018
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    MitchM

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    I think I might be doing away with my liner this year and switching over to a bentonite clay mix.
    That will allow me to properly plant some marginals in and around the pond.
     
    MitchM, Jan 6, 2018
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  14. GBBUDD

    GBBUDD

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    I was referring to putting a main drain in the pond. But I also plan on covering the rubber with shelves for a couple bogs at the sides of the pond that will have the pea stone. The main drain will without question have to deal with some pea stone. This will make its way to the bottom of the pond. The bottom drain will suck in the stone and may clog or restrict the flow as I plan on using a 4" line this will draw the water gently , but I doubt would be able to clear the line of stone.
     
    GBBUDD, Jan 7, 2018
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  15. GBBUDD

    GBBUDD

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    I've been reading a lot of posts the clay seems to be a nightmare for cloudy water as if disturbed it migrates in a big way it is so fine it can choke out o2 levels. make a flower box within the liner sorta speak and fill with the clay
     
    GBBUDD, Jan 7, 2018
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  16. GBBUDD

    GBBUDD

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    I have to admit I have not used the plastic paints as yet when those first came out I did try some and it failed miserably. good to hear they may have perfected them
     
    GBBUDD, Jan 7, 2018
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  17. GBBUDD

    GBBUDD

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    I'm itching to get to work on the pond I have a big hole in the back yard but the temps plummeted the day after I opened the ground up . I can't even get the metal posts in the ground to place the temp fencing. The frost line is almost a foot already.
     
    GBBUDD, Jan 7, 2018
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  18. GBBUDD

    Lisak1

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    Why clay? Pond plants grown great in gravel - far less mess to deal with. You will be pulling plants up to divide them eventually - pulling them out of gravel just dislodges gravel. Pull them out of clay and you'll have a mess.
     
    Lisak1, Jan 7, 2018
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  19. GBBUDD

    GBBUDD

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    More then just a mess if you just place bentonite on the bottom and pull plants out latter you will create leak a weeper where the water will leach out unless your soils are also high in clay content
     
    GBBUDD, Jan 7, 2018
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  20. GBBUDD

    Lisak1

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    Well, right. But I was referring to your idea to add clay to your planting shelves for plants.
     
    Lisak1, Jan 7, 2018
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