Above ground pond

[nyteyz]

Hello all,

I'm currently building an above ground pond (read outdoor aquarium), my original plan was cement brick on concrete footings and core filled but this was canned due to local council regulations. so i have opted for a timber framed pond on a bed of compacted sandstone. All the walls are stud frame walls and will be lined inside with cement sheet, underlay then liner. My concern is will the pond hold up with the weight and pressure of the water?

Just a few details of the pond to help answer the above question.

Inside diameter of the pond is 1900mm x 1900mm x 700mm (6'3" x 6'3" x 2'3") Wall studs are at 300mm centres (12")

Can anyone offer any advice?

 

[HTH]

I do not have an answer regarding your design. I know people have built similar but I have never heard where they used cement sheets.

http://www.ukkrazykoi.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=716&sid=d4c18f715971cf3d3f7f3d567fe64892&start=10

I suggest you google "wood koi tank" and you will get lots of idea on ways this could be done.

You might look how people are building koi quarantine tanks.

 

[nyteyz]

HTH,
thanks for the link, gave me a great idea to support the walls. Jsut to clarify the reason i'm using cement sheeting is because it is cheap and redily available, and also to get a flat surface on the outer side of the pond as it is part of a 'formal' garden

 

[Dave 54]

We came to this same problem, we got around this by using a large 7ft wide 4ft deep circular free standing pond, with only the bottom drain buried in the ground.
Thus it can be removed when we vacate our property and taken with us leaving nothng behind but a small depression.
Look into what your council has to say about this we used the fact that an aivery is a semi permanent structure but can be removed just by pulling it down.

Hope it helps

rgrds

Dave

 

[Waterbug]

I'm curious what local council regulations were a problem. I can see them having issues with a water feature, but why would they not want you to use standard building methods and instead want/allow inferior construction. Is it a permanent vs temporary thing?

Such a structure can certainly whole water and 2' depth and just 6' long sides is not much pressure for stud type construction. 30-36" deep is where things get more difficult and longer walls. But the devil is in the details so I couldn't say. I've also never worked with the cement sheeting you have so couldn't say. The cement board we have here is definitely not structural, it has to be backed by plywood.

I've always been impressed with the wood tanks built by Karl Schoeler in Minnesota. Sound building practices and he's done a bunch and learned stuff along the way. I like the horizontal plate/beam 1/2 way up, but for a 2' deep tank probably not needed, but better safe than sorry.

On the other end here's a couple of common mistakes imo...The pond below has metal strapping going all the way around the outside, but that's a waste. Metal is great in the corners, like is done at the top and bottom in the pic. But the metal does nothing mid span. A round pond with metal around the perimeter is great, but no point when rectangular.

In the following video every single piece of wood is oriented the wrong way. It sounds like maybe you have some building experience so probably already know this, but I wasn't sure.

 

[Dave 54]

Waterbug its down to antiquated council bye-laws passed probably before our time we wanted to build a larger pond 3ft down 3ft up 11ft in length and 4ft foot wide the council said no because of some bye law but we noted that it was fine to build an avery which was semi permanent .
So we sort of went down that route ,making the pond a semi permanent structure by building on top of the surface with only the bottom drain in the ground,
When we rang the council to give them this plan they could see no problem to it and said go ahead with your pond which we did dropping in a bottom drain adding the large plastic QT pond we got from a former dealers who through ill health have now emigrated to Australia we built four platforms for the filters then build a frame round both the pond and filters all can be ripped out within a short time should the need arise but the important bit is we arent breaking any of those stupid bye-laws that were made years ago and never rescinded.

rgrds

Dave

 

[HTH]

I agree with WB. Karl Schoeler in Minnesota. uses a far better technique. It is the method I was searching for.

Water pressure increases with depth which explains the heavy belt of wood about 1/3 from the bottom. You can build the part from that belt up for your depth.

Need to note that here the filter system is quite large and it allows for quite heavy stocking levels. I would have a standby generator next to this setup. A few hours without power would be bad.

 

[Dave 54]

Well said HTH this is the first mention of a standby generator that I've come across ours is a clarks 700 watt suitcase model for next to Quiet running and will supply the entire ponds working parts during a powercut .
Rather than a two stroke generator i;e oil and petrol mixed we decided on a four stroke Generator
I forgot it is also including of any power needed for our QT tank so as you can see we have things covered .
Power is a thing we all need but as the years go by especially here in the UK they are saying that there is a dire need for new power staions the government privatized the power industry many moons ago and are now frightened of the huge bills the consumer will have to pay so there will be powercuts within the next 25 years if the government doesnt man up and demand these power stations be built but not at the bill payers expense .
Do you have your own if so how often do you test yours Please ?

rgrds

Dave

 

[HTH]

Not yet but it something we would like to have.

I depend on a ghast regenerative blower. I find that as long as I have air I am in good shape.

My ponds have always been rather low tech with low stocking levels and lots of plants. Currently the only real danger should there be a power failure is on a hot day, say 100F or more. With the shallow pond I now have the koi and goldfish need the aireation. We moved some time ago and I am just getting to building ponds to get back to where I was prior to the move. It has amazed me how long it takes to replace what one built up over years. I will be playing catch up for a few more years. Health and God willing.

I need to make a gas/petro power version of the blower. Easy enough to do with a lawn mower engine and a auto smog pump from the 70s or 80s.

 

[koiguy1969]

i built my 800gal above ground basement pond in 2 layers. 2x4 construction, butt joints on the corners. with an additional 2x4 glued and screwed on both the top plate of the upper layer and the bottom plate of the bottom layer. these are installed after the construction of the layer. then the 2 layers are glued and screwed together. all studs (verticals) are 2' on center. all nailer plates (horizontals) are jointed in the opposing direction to the one its attached to. this creates a far stronger corner. and when the 2 layers are fastened together it makes that joint a double plate. 5/8" particle board sheathing as inner walls...20 mil liner (PVC).. its in its 6th year of use and as solid as the day it was built.

 

[Dave 54]

Not yet but it something we would like to have.

I depend on a ghast regenerative blower. I find that as long as I have air I am in good shape.

My ponds have always been rather low tech with low stocking levels and lots of plants. Currently the only real danger should there be a power failure is on a hot day, say 100F or more. With the shallow pond I now have the koi and goldfish need the aireation. We moved some time ago and I am just getting to building ponds to get back to where I was prior to the move. It has amazed me how long it takes to replace what one built up over years. I will be playing catch up for a few more years. Health and God willing.

I need to make a gas/petro power version of the blower. Easy enough to do with a lawn mower engine and a auto smog pump from the 70s or 80s.

Just how shallow is your pond , I ask this as its recomended that a koi pond be between 4ft minimum and 5 foot you can go deeper but its is though that koi will only use the first 5ft so anmything deeper is a waste .
What are your winters like , the more severe you have it, the more I can see you having problems.
You can if you do like we did insulate around the pond prior to it being completed we have also built up around the filters and double glazed the top so that in winter any heat is kept in add a small 800 watt oil fired radiator and we have a pond that if you add Polycarbonate sheets over the pond duringthe winter a pond that wont ice up and if your lucky and do it right first time a pond where you can continue feeding your koi throughout the winter months

rgrds

Dave

 

[HTH]

I was a member of the Pikes Peak Water Garden Society for a number of years so I think I understand your concerns.

My koi pond in Colorado was 4 1/2 deep. This pond was only intended to be a holding pond for plants and fish but health and such has caused it to remain in place much longer then expected. The existing pond is nothing but a hole in the ground with a liner tossed in. It is less then knee deep;. This depth was selected because it deep enough so as not to move the lilies up in the spring and down in the fall. We have well over 100 lilies in addition to the other water plants. We only have 4 Koi at this point.

I did manage to move the liners from Colorado which was not an easy thing. The past few days I have been working on a 4+ deep pond next to the existing one using an 18x14' liner.. First I will use it to hold the plants while the other is cleaned and adjusted. Then the koi will get the deeper one for a while. It too is temporary,

But we are hijacking nyteyz's thread. You can join me here if you like. I would like to recreate what I had in colorado only more and better. One pond will be covered much like the one I used to have.

 

[nyteyz]

All good guys Hijack away, getting ideas as i read through your posts.

To answer a few questions regarding council and the pond.

The feature is permanent but as i have an easment running along the rear of my property (where my pond is going) i cannot concrete and must make it easily removable (had to jump thropugh hoops to get permission to concrete the opposite rear corner of my yard for a shed)
Other than that the council has no issues.

With the cement sheet as i have studs at 300mm centres and the sheets are 6mm thick i should be ok without backing them with ply. on the base i'm filling the frame with sand then going to lay 2 courses of cement sheet.

I have another question do i need to use some form of underlay between the liner and the cement sheeting?

Thanks
John

 

[Waterbug]

Thanks for the info on the council's issues. We run into the same type of thing here once in awhile. I have disassembled above ground wood ponds and also concrete block ponds...same amount of time to disassemble either. But a lot of people hear the word concrete and that's it for them. As many myths about concrete as there is about ponds...and probably every other subject. I've only run into the issue in small towns where the building department doesn't have any building experience. Luckily in bigger cites we don't often have that problem.

I have another question do i need to use some form of underlay between the liner and the cement sheeting?

Depends on the liner. PVC yes. EPDM maybe not. Kind of depends on how you attach the cement board. Glue it to the studs and tape the joints, EPDM will be OK. Nail it to the studs with roofing nails, EPDM will probably be OK. Screw it to the studs, even underlayment may not be enough depending on the screw heads.

With the cement sheet as i have studs at 300mm centres and the sheets are 6mm thick i should be ok without backing them with ply. on the base i'm filling the frame with sand then going to lay 2 courses of cement sheet.

Optimism is the cornerstone of any DIY project.

 

[Dave 54]

How is the build Nyteyz keep us posted as to any problems you have , between us all we should see you having a nice pond.
Thats if you'll take the word of a Pom lol

rgrds

Dave