Another pond of sorts...

[capewind]

Hubby and I went yesterday to grab another liner to set up a real area in the basement for over wintering plants. Not sure what size this "pond" will be. It will depend on what we have for spare parts laying around to build the box. Probably a finished size in the ball park of 6 x 10 x 1.5 (got a 10 x 15' liner). Have a couple of questions...

1. The primary goal of this "pond" is for plants, so my first question is about lighting. Using 4' long shop lights, each with 2, 40 watt growlux, wide spectrum bulbs. How many light strips do you think would be best, how far apart, and how high above the plants?

2. We also want to keep the option open of being able to put fish in this "pond",,, aka another "just in case" containment area, so thinking about filtration. Thinking of a skippy filter. Plenty of spare pumps, pvc, etc laying around. My question is what size tote/tub would be best for something this small? Guessing the "pond" would finish out about 700 gallons and would use a pump somewhere in the range of 1400-2000 gph...

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Just want to get it up and running, and not go for overkill...

 

[Craig58]

Bolts.. not screws when building any frame! Made that mistake on my first indoor pond.

It's amazing how fast you can bail out a pond with a bucket when you see a wood frame begin to pull apart in a basement family room!!

Ours is only 14" deep, designed for wintering tropical plants and wintering over the previous summers batch of baby koi to give them a head start for the next season.

It's close to a large window and we put a track light about a foot over the pond on the wall. We have three grow light bulbs in the track lights. Its not the greatest but the tropicals make it through OK and that's all we wanted it for as far as plants. Sometimes we'll throw some parrots feather in but it usually doesn't make it to spring between the fish nibbling on it and the lack of enough light and the lower temps in house. We keep the water about 72-75 with aquarium heaters. With the house temp at about 68-70 and the surface area of the pond, that's about the best we can do without covering the pond up some how and not spending a fortune on heaters.

Craig

 

[capewind]

Craig, I would laugh about your bow, but we've been there already LOL. Will add a pic of our QT. Note the 2 x 6 front wall. That fixed the bow for us LOL. Other than a few screws holding "boards" (scrap lumber on hand), the main frame was built with timberloks. I am pretty sure the bulk of the "plant pond" will be done with ties, just because I know we have a bunch. How big is yours? Are you using any kind of filtration?

 

[Craig58]

We used 2x4's on, I believe, 8" centers for construction of the frame and then lined with 3/4" plywood. Similar to yours we had three interior walls to back three of the sides. I think ours is similar to yours in size, maybe a tad smaller. Ours has a weird angle to the front of it because of where we put it and that's why we had an issue with the joint pulling apart. No bowing of the wood that I saw. We quickly dropped the water level and I went back and added bolts to the screws on the joints across the front. Disaster averted.

I have no pictures with me. I'll try to find some or take some tonight of it.

We use a small inpond filter. I can't remember the brand but it's a small pump, maybe 40GPH? The filter itself is about 6" by 12" with two filter pads, a coarse one, and a finer one. Then about 20 1" bio balls. The pump is buried in the middle of this and pumps the water back into the pond via a center pipe. Usually this is set on the bottom and a fountain attachment is used. We just set it on it's side at one end of the pond on the bottom and let it jet out towards the other end.

Craig

 

[Waterbug]

If the idea is to keep plants growing it takes a tremendous amount of light. Temp also has to be kept up but that isn't a problem with the amount of lighting needed.

If the idea is to just keep plants alive for next year there are easier ways. Lilies just don't want to dry out, so 6-12" of water is enough, no leaves. Every marginal I know of over winters better in damp soil, just can't freeze. Again, no leaves. Some even do better with their rhizomes in damp sand, saw dust etc. Depends on the plant.

 

[capewind]

The most important plants are the Taros and Cannas... not hardy here at all, and want to keep this years growth. Our lilies are all hardy, no tropicals, so they will just stay where they are outside in the pond. Also have a bunch of tropical plants, but dont know any of their names (well, I know the cala lily LOL), and whatever surface area remains, I want to fill with water hyacinths to have a jump on next year since we need so many.

Any clue on if the box is 6 x 10, how many dual, 4' light strips would be needed? Temp also wont be an issue. Have a heater... hubby says it could run the outside pond, and it will be okay in something so small. Has a thermostat, so he can set it at whatever temp I want.

 

[capewind]

We used 2x4's on, I believe, 8" centers for construction of the frame and then lined with 3/4" plywood. Similar to yours we had three interior walls to back three of the sides. I think ours is similar to yours in size, maybe a tad smaller. Ours has a weird angle to the front of it because of where we put it and that's why we had an issue with the joint pulling apart. No bowing of the wood that I saw. We quickly dropped the water level and I went back and added bolts to the screws on the joints across the front. Disaster averted.

The QT is only against one wall, but since the sides are so narrow, they didnt need any reinforcing. Would have to double check, but believe in actual water holding area is 5 x 10 x 2. The new one for the plants is only going to hold 18" of water, and will be set into a corner. I think the game plan is to set the skippy style filter onto a box above the end of the pond so not to take up more floor space. Hubby wanted to build it into the corner of the pond, but I am fighting for the surface area LOL. Oh, and he is officially planning to use all ties... says we have plenty here, and they will be the fastest to slap together. Only 54 out now. Water is still warmer, but its gonna be a race against the weather. Now to get the damn corner of the basement cleaned out. Only a pallet of roofing shingles in the way LOL.

 

[sissy]

you can use sand bags or cement bags

This pond is built on a cement floor .Backfilled with mulch and dirt in a giant one of those metal sheds

 

[capewind]

Sissy... that is really pretty! Are you saying sand or cement bags for the "walls" of the box???

 

[sissy]

Well in a way they were piled up all around the pond interlacing them .It is shallow but works and he is planning his pond for outside and guessing he started digging while I was away because he left a note on my door .It looks really natural and he used mulch and rocks around the outside to cover the liner and the cement bags .After it was in there we just tossed the liner in and moved and moved and moved it until it was in the right way .He put rocks on the bottom ,not my idea and told him is going to be hard to clean and he admitted it is .He bought a truckload of sand and the bags and it cost him 150 dollars for everything .The bags he ordered and the sand was local and when he picked the sand up in his truck he found out they sell the bags cheaper than what he paid .Course sand so it was cheap .Rocks he had on his property and from streams nearby .The bags in the back where he did the filter are 10 bags high .I don't have pics of the build as I was only there if he had problems figuring things out .His sons and his wife filled the bags and the liner he got at lowes and it was 20 x 20 and the pond is not very deep as you can tell .The liner was 75 dollars .

 

[Waterbug]

The most important plants are the Taros and Cannas.

Both can overwinter as just bare tuber/rhizome wrapped in newspaper, or in sawdust, peat, something dry. Or in pots cut almost to the soi. Store someplace cool (can't freeze), dark, don't water. There are forums on specific plants like Canna on GardenWeb where you can get lots more opinions and experiences.

As for light needs I think your best source of info would be pot growers. Lights have to be very close to the leaves, almost touching. So maybe vertical lights around each plant?

I tried overwintering Water Hyacinth once in CA zone 9, didn't work. Many people fail, but some people do overwinter them. From what I've read they barely overwinter, but do. They can be planted in soil or in a tube of water. Heat and lighter are needed. Starting with new plants (babies) seem to have the best chance, but people say they look pretty bad by spring but do bounce back.

Hopefully you can post what happens for you. I'd like to overwinter WH.

 

[capewind]

About to give up on the entire project and bring the liner back. Really didnt want to lose the current growth on the taros and cannas, but dont think we are gonna beat the clock/weather. Have 5 water hyacinths BLOOMING, but the greens are starting to brown out... slippery slope... my experience has been once they start to brown, they wont bounce back. Can fit all the taro and cannas into 2 kiddie pools...

 

[sissy]

I use concrete mixing tubs I have and it is just old man winter getting ready to show us his face .He wants in and we don't want him in .You can wait until next spring and go for it neve give up .Smile and say I can do this . :razz:

 

[Waterbug]

I don't know much about Taro but Canna kept in wet conditions when not growing vigorously is a good way to rot the rhizomes. This is the same reason why when adding Canna to a pond the safest bet is too start them in a normal pot outside of the pond until there's some good green growth and only then putting them into water. And this isn't a cold issue. Here in Phoenix Canna in full sun can die back. If I keep adding water the rhizomes rot.

Almost all, maybe all, marginals can survive in water, but that doesn't mean they do best in water. Generally well watered marginals that can drain do way better.

 

[sissy]

Taro grows bare root I put a broken piece in my concrete mixing tub with other floating plants and it has lots of roots on it .I was pulling up a weed in my taro's and accidentally pulled one little piece up and it had a couple of tiny roots on it so put it in the tub and figure if it made it good if not well it would be compost .