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Aquaponics build
- Thread starter MitchM
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crsublette
coyotes call me Charles
So true...Waterbug said:
I think bell siphons seem to be viewed as the main component of an aquaponic system, even when it doesn't make sense to have a bell siphon such as in a wicking grow bed. Bell siphons are completely inefficient to the point of being useless in a wicking grow bed.
A properly built wicking bed will hold water tremendously better than any hydroton type media bed. Beill siphons make sense for hydroton or gravel media due to its poor water retention. Personally, I think a grow medium's water rentention should dictate the flood and drain duration; otherwise, the soil will always remain moist, not saturated, that reduces oxygenation. When the medium is allowed to reach closer to it wilting point, oxygenation is increased and root mass increases.
I think sequencing valves or coordinating simple water hose timers connected to the recirculating system is the better route for a wicking grow bed. This would allow the wicking bed's resevoir to be full for 15 minutes and then empty for 45 minutes on cooler days and something more like 30 minutes full / 30 minutes empty on hotter days. I just have not seen bell siphons have this type of easy flexibility.
HTH
Howard
"The Game" was an episode of Star Trek the Next Generation where crew members replicate a video game that mesmerizes them to the point they do not report for duty. No one is left to run the ship.HTH said:
If I have to explain this one it will make me feel very old.
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I got the media in tonight. Had to fiddle with it a bit because Hydrocorn floats until it is saturated. As the Hydrocorn floats and settles, it will pull up the outer shield of the bell siphon and allow some Hydrocorn pieces underneath and that will plug up the bell siphon. I put a rock on each bell siphon outer chamber to hold it in place until the Hydrocorn is saturated.
The media beds are now all cycling through at about 15 minutes/cycle.
The media beds are now all cycling through at about 15 minutes/cycle.
I ran into this video today. Pretty boring but a couple of parts were interesting to me. I'm thinking about growing Baramundi now, but have to check it out. They call their set up aquaponics, but maybe that's a looser term than I'm used to. They do have green houses, but didn't show much. On a diagram they showed water going to different crops but as a one way trip. So basically waste water from a fish farm. I think recycling the water is the cornerstone of the aquaponic definition, so I don't know what this is properly called. But I read about the exact thing happen at a big aquaponic farm here in AZ. They couldn't really get the recycle aspect to work so they just used the waste water on crops. They said this outright.
Backyard setup might allow for water quality issues to be controlled by lighter fish loads, an option the farms don't really have.
Any who, interest parts of the video...
A diagram they show "solids removal" and later show a huge drum filter which they labeled "micro screen". That's pretty serious solids removal. I keep hearing aquaponic people who have been doing it for a while mention solids removal. I assume its water quality issue for the fish, but I've heard a couple of people mention clogged pipes or beds. Removal of solid to me is a big part of the waste stream, which is what this recycling thing is suppose to handle. But man-o-man, other than a couple of words that's all I can find. I get the feeling in promoting aquaponics people are not being complete honest.
Another interesting thing in the video is what they called a trickle filter. I've heard this come up before too, that the beds aren't able to convert enough ammonia for whatever reason and some people are adding bio filters.
Just FYI.
BTW, had Tilapia for dinner tonight, delish. I'm starting to think no Goldfish or Koi.
Backyard setup might allow for water quality issues to be controlled by lighter fish loads, an option the farms don't really have.
Any who, interest parts of the video...
A diagram they show "solids removal" and later show a huge drum filter which they labeled "micro screen". That's pretty serious solids removal. I keep hearing aquaponic people who have been doing it for a while mention solids removal. I assume its water quality issue for the fish, but I've heard a couple of people mention clogged pipes or beds. Removal of solid to me is a big part of the waste stream, which is what this recycling thing is suppose to handle. But man-o-man, other than a couple of words that's all I can find. I get the feeling in promoting aquaponics people are not being complete honest.
Another interesting thing in the video is what they called a trickle filter. I've heard this come up before too, that the beds aren't able to convert enough ammonia for whatever reason and some people are adding bio filters.
Just FYI.
BTW, had Tilapia for dinner tonight, delish. I'm starting to think no Goldfish or Koi.
Just ran into an aquaponics forum that looks pretty good. They seem to have some people with some experience and a lot from from Australian which can be close to my climate.
One signature was "1 test is worth 100 expert opinions" which is music to my eyes. Few months of reading ahead of me.
One signature was "1 test is worth 100 expert opinions" which is music to my eyes. Few months of reading ahead of me.
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It looks like the big operations are just trying to maximize profits by growing and selling as many fish as possible. Recycling the water for a big operation would be an unnecessary expense if other people are willing to buy the water or maintain crops with the waste water used for irrigation. They do sit on some big aquifers over there. I can see the solids being a problem if you're dispensing the water to the crops through conventional sprinklers or underground drip lines.
I did come across that Australian forum a little while ago. Those are some serious aquaponics people and setups over there. You're right about months of reading!
It would be nice if outdoor aquaponics was possible up here. Opens the door to so many more options.
I added some more media to the grow bed today, it has helped stop the movement from the floating Hydrocorn. There's about an inch or two of dry media on top that the water level doesn't get to.I also threw in a couple seeds of broccoli and basil to see what would become of them.in the next couple of weeks. Ammonia is sitting at 1 ppm, nitrate 0, KH 7, GH 18, PH 8.
I also added some Microbe Lift to the filter to help speed up the cycle.
While the system cycles, I'm trying to decide what fish to keep in the aquarium. Talapia and trout are able to be purchased here in Alberta but you need an aquaculture license first from the provincial government. Not a big deal, you submit an application, someone comes and has to inspect and approve the aquaponics setup. Your license number is then kept on file from whoever you purchase farmed fish through.
The aquarium is only a couple hundred gallons, I would prefer something larger, like 500 gallons to keep fish big enough to eat, and for keeping trout I would need to cool the aquarium. A 500 gallon tank would take up too much space in the greenhouse.
I'm not interested in the costs for an electric chiller, so the only other way to cool the aquarium would be to run a cold water loop through a PEX line from our water well. That could tax the well too much, plus the well pump would have to run pretty often. So that's a non starter.
That leaves me looking at some fish that can withstand some wider temperature ranges, maybe goldfish or koi. On hotter days the water temperature doesn't seem to rise above 23C/73F. Heating the water in the winter isn't such a big issue, I can run a recirculating hot water PEX loop from our natural gas heated boiler without too much added ongoing costs.
Does anybody have any other fish ideas?
Looking at my 5' deep, 29' X 30' pond the other day, I was wondering how I could possibly catch and bring the pond fish inside for the winter. Might not be doable. Maybe I'll have separate inside fish and outside fish. I'll just have to make sure that the outside fish are very well fed going into the winter. I think I lost some fish over last winter because both the pond and the fish were relatively new.
I did come across that Australian forum a little while ago. Those are some serious aquaponics people and setups over there. You're right about months of reading!
It would be nice if outdoor aquaponics was possible up here. Opens the door to so many more options.
I added some more media to the grow bed today, it has helped stop the movement from the floating Hydrocorn. There's about an inch or two of dry media on top that the water level doesn't get to.I also threw in a couple seeds of broccoli and basil to see what would become of them.in the next couple of weeks. Ammonia is sitting at 1 ppm, nitrate 0, KH 7, GH 18, PH 8.
I also added some Microbe Lift to the filter to help speed up the cycle.
While the system cycles, I'm trying to decide what fish to keep in the aquarium. Talapia and trout are able to be purchased here in Alberta but you need an aquaculture license first from the provincial government. Not a big deal, you submit an application, someone comes and has to inspect and approve the aquaponics setup. Your license number is then kept on file from whoever you purchase farmed fish through.
The aquarium is only a couple hundred gallons, I would prefer something larger, like 500 gallons to keep fish big enough to eat, and for keeping trout I would need to cool the aquarium. A 500 gallon tank would take up too much space in the greenhouse.
I'm not interested in the costs for an electric chiller, so the only other way to cool the aquarium would be to run a cold water loop through a PEX line from our water well. That could tax the well too much, plus the well pump would have to run pretty often. So that's a non starter.
That leaves me looking at some fish that can withstand some wider temperature ranges, maybe goldfish or koi. On hotter days the water temperature doesn't seem to rise above 23C/73F. Heating the water in the winter isn't such a big issue, I can run a recirculating hot water PEX loop from our natural gas heated boiler without too much added ongoing costs.
Does anybody have any other fish ideas?
Looking at my 5' deep, 29' X 30' pond the other day, I was wondering how I could possibly catch and bring the pond fish inside for the winter. Might not be doable. Maybe I'll have separate inside fish and outside fish. I'll just have to make sure that the outside fish are very well fed going into the winter. I think I lost some fish over last winter because both the pond and the fish were relatively new.
HTH
Howard
On handling solids. I like the idea of using red worms which consume the solids and create worm castings which are more usable by the plants.
I hear KOI are yummy but maybe too slow growing ?
I hear KOI are yummy but maybe too slow growing ?
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I don't think I could eat a koi, lol.
I don't expect that the fish I keep will be eaten.
I don't expect that the fish I keep will be eaten.
crsublette
coyotes call me Charles
Lately, I've enjoyed reading the Aquaponic Source.
I understand why solids are removed, but I do not understand why there is this assumption that the removed solids have to put elsewhere outside of the system. The removed solids should be decomposed in an aerobic digester that is then used as an extremely slow drench around the plants while the grow beds are drained. The sludge from the digester can then be fed to a worm farm grow bed, which ya then can feed the worms to the fish.
Fact of nature that nitrification will drop the pH to the point that it will kill the fish. So, a potash product then must be used to combat this pH drop. Many forms of potash ranging from potassium hydroxide, potassium chloride, potassium carbonate. potassium sulfate. Also, it is a fact that the plants will eventually deplete the magnesium and calcium levels. So, a product such as epsom salt, which does not contain sodium, composed of magnesium sulfate, and, for calcium, can use a very loose soil mix in a wicking grow bed or other supplements such as calcium chloride or calcium hydroxide (hydrated lime). Unfortunately, proponents of this system and folk unfamiliar with hydroponic grown vegatables view these products as "evil" chemicals.
Here is a nutrient analyasis of some aquaponic water. I know everyone's water is different since different fish food contains different nutrients, but I bet this is not far off. Now, if nutrient supplements are not used such as potash or calcium supplement or epsom salt, then I suspect fruit bearing plants (tomatoes, grapes, peppers, root vegetables) will constantly have a yellow tint to the plant, indicating nutrient deficiency, while yielding very little fruit.
Leafy greens such as lettuce, leeks, celery, cabbage, etc will ultimately do fine in a nitrogren rich aquaponic water up till harvest, but these plants will start to decline once they start to produce seed if the proper nutrients are not provided.
Yeah, I think there are many misconceptions by both the skeptics and the proponents.Waterbug said:
I understand why solids are removed, but I do not understand why there is this assumption that the removed solids have to put elsewhere outside of the system. The removed solids should be decomposed in an aerobic digester that is then used as an extremely slow drench around the plants while the grow beds are drained. The sludge from the digester can then be fed to a worm farm grow bed, which ya then can feed the worms to the fish.
Fact of nature that nitrification will drop the pH to the point that it will kill the fish. So, a potash product then must be used to combat this pH drop. Many forms of potash ranging from potassium hydroxide, potassium chloride, potassium carbonate. potassium sulfate. Also, it is a fact that the plants will eventually deplete the magnesium and calcium levels. So, a product such as epsom salt, which does not contain sodium, composed of magnesium sulfate, and, for calcium, can use a very loose soil mix in a wicking grow bed or other supplements such as calcium chloride or calcium hydroxide (hydrated lime). Unfortunately, proponents of this system and folk unfamiliar with hydroponic grown vegatables view these products as "evil" chemicals.
Here is a nutrient analyasis of some aquaponic water. I know everyone's water is different since different fish food contains different nutrients, but I bet this is not far off. Now, if nutrient supplements are not used such as potash or calcium supplement or epsom salt, then I suspect fruit bearing plants (tomatoes, grapes, peppers, root vegetables) will constantly have a yellow tint to the plant, indicating nutrient deficiency, while yielding very little fruit.
Leafy greens such as lettuce, leeks, celery, cabbage, etc will ultimately do fine in a nitrogren rich aquaponic water up till harvest, but these plants will start to decline once they start to produce seed if the proper nutrients are not provided.
crsublette
coyotes call me Charles
Look into Bluegill. They are extremely hardy in both very cold and very hot temperatures and reproduce like crazy, but they take about 2 years of growth until they are considered "plate size" to be harvested.MitchM said:I don't think I could eat a koi, lol.
I don't expect that the fish I keep will be eaten.
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Thanks for those links Charles.
My well water has calcium 83 ppm, potassium 2 ppm magnesium 38 ppm, alkalinity 21 dkh, iron .33 ppm, nitrates .2 ppm, PH 8.2, so supplementation may be minimal on my part.
Maybe add some laterite to the aquarium to keep the iron up. Phosphate will of course come from the fish food.
No Bluegill available in Canada that I could find, and it's illegal to transport anything caught in the wild to keep at a fish culture premise.
I also came across some information that I may live in a restricted zone where culture licenses are only given out for rainbow trout, so it looks like I'm going to be restricted to goldfish, koi or a typical tropical species and keep the aquarium heated to some degree year round.
My well water has calcium 83 ppm, potassium 2 ppm magnesium 38 ppm, alkalinity 21 dkh, iron .33 ppm, nitrates .2 ppm, PH 8.2, so supplementation may be minimal on my part.
Maybe add some laterite to the aquarium to keep the iron up. Phosphate will of course come from the fish food.
No Bluegill available in Canada that I could find, and it's illegal to transport anything caught in the wild to keep at a fish culture premise.
I also came across some information that I may live in a restricted zone where culture licenses are only given out for rainbow trout, so it looks like I'm going to be restricted to goldfish, koi or a typical tropical species and keep the aquarium heated to some degree year round.
crsublette
coyotes call me Charles
Sheesh. Silly canadians. Maybe ya could do a cladenstine mission on stocking up on bluegill and tell everyone it is a mutated trout.
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Yes, I'm sure that would fly...
Bluegill
Rainbow trout
Silly Americans.
Bluegill
Rainbow trout
Silly Americans.
Mitch,
I am suprised that an individual with a small operation (say a backyard setup) has to adhere to such regulations. I certainly could see such regulations for a commercial fish / auquaponics / veggie farm. But, making an ordinary person adhere seems a bit overkill and perhaps even a waste of enforcement personnel and money.
I suppose that the logic at work there is that if anyone can raise fish in an aquaculture, regardless of how small, they could also have an accident and release non-native fish species into the environment and disrupt the ecosystem. Look what has happened with the Asian Silver Carp and Big Head Carp here in the U.S. for instance:
I am sure that the legalities of having any sort of a fish farm have the prevention of this in mind!
We even have these invaders in our local rivers here in Nebraska now. They jump just like in the video and in a matter of a 15-30 minute trip up the river, we can have 30 - 60 lbs of fish in the boat without using a fishing pole or a net! They just "hitch a ride".
Gordy
I am suprised that an individual with a small operation (say a backyard setup) has to adhere to such regulations. I certainly could see such regulations for a commercial fish / auquaponics / veggie farm. But, making an ordinary person adhere seems a bit overkill and perhaps even a waste of enforcement personnel and money.
I suppose that the logic at work there is that if anyone can raise fish in an aquaculture, regardless of how small, they could also have an accident and release non-native fish species into the environment and disrupt the ecosystem. Look what has happened with the Asian Silver Carp and Big Head Carp here in the U.S. for instance:
I am sure that the legalities of having any sort of a fish farm have the prevention of this in mind!
We even have these invaders in our local rivers here in Nebraska now. They jump just like in the video and in a matter of a 15-30 minute trip up the river, we can have 30 - 60 lbs of fish in the boat without using a fishing pole or a net! They just "hitch a ride".
Gordy