can anyone identity this koi


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Hi I'm just wandering if anyone can help me identity this koi ,
WP_20180930_013 (2).jpg
WP_20180930_017 (2).jpg
 
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It was black patches like on the head but seams to have changed to gray hope someone hope someone can help
 
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Welcome @j and d ! That's a pretty fish!

I'm not a koi expert so I'll leave that to someone who knows that stuff. But I wondered where you got the fish and did they tell you that it was a certain type when you bought it?
 
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Fist off I'm NOT a koi expert by an)y means!... but I do know a few distinct facts that might help

Is it metallic?
Gin Matsuba is white, gray and black, and has pine cone like scale (Kujaku does too but has yellow, orange or red as well)

Or it could be a Kikokuryu which are metallic white, black and gray and do change drastically and continually as they grow ( I have 3 kin kikokuryu)

Or it could be a mix...none the less a beautiful koi! :)
 
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Welcome @j and d ! That's a pretty fish!

I'm not a koi expert so I'll leave that to someone who knows that stuff. But I wondered where you got the fish and did they tell you that it was a certain type when you bought it?
This fish I got from a hobbyist he said his fish were all Japanese import's, he was only about 2 inch max at the time hes coming up for second year now and this this is second time iv looked at him and hes different, the black head spot does now have orange coming through
 
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Fist off I'm NOT a koi expert by an)y means!... but I do know a few distinct facts that might help

Is it metallic?
Gin Matsuba is white, gray and black, and has pine cone like scale (Kujaku does too but has yellow, orange or red as well)

Or it could be a Kikokuryu which are metallic white, black and gray and do change drastically and continually as they grow ( I have 3 kin kikokuryu)

Or it could be a mix...none the less a beautiful koi! :)[/QUOTE
 
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Thank you I think he's beautiful its the second time iv looked and he's different and not metallic, now the black head spot has started to show some orange in it, confused big much lol ill try get a picture of just that and put it up
 
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I managed to get a picture and you can just see the red/orange colour that's coming through now
WP_20180930_013 (2).jpg
 
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Dragon koi also known as kikokuryu koi, iv looked at them but I wouldn't say hes metallic, I did look at the kumonryu koi the none metallic version but can't find one that looks like him ,maybe hes just a unique one lol
 
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Dragon koi also known as kikokuryu koi, iv looked at them but I wouldn't say hes metallic, I did look at the kumonryu koi the none metallic version but can't find one that looks like him ,maybe hes just a unique one lol
Hi,
kikokuryu is a Dragon!
The definition of "Metallic" is when the color is bright and a bit shining, rather than dull and opaque in my opinion your fish is metallic, not sparkly (GinRin) which is a different thing, but it looks metallic to me.

I can't say that I see the red/orange you speak about, but that could be my (@#%$#) pc's fault:D
What I would've liked was a better shot at the scales. because they kinda look pine-cone to me and unless your fish is a mix, I only know Matsuba and Kujaku that are metallic and have scales like that.
Search kujaku and Gin Matsuba and take a good look "at the scales" notice how each one is well defined (like a pine cone)and compare those of your koi ...if they look nothing like it, then I'd say you have a Dragon (Kikokuryu or "kin kikokuryu if it develops other colors) and that would definitely explain the rapid and frequent changes in patterns

Please don't get me wrong, even if it turns out to be a mixed breed, it is still a wonderful specimen, all recognized breeds started out by mixing different kinds!:)

I hope this helped!
 
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Hi,
kikokuryu is a Dragon!
The definition of "Metallic" is when the color is bright and a bit shining, rather than dull and opaque in my opinion your fish is metallic, not sparkly (GinRin) which is a different thing, but it looks metallic to me.

I can't say that I see the red/orange you speak about, but that could be my (@#%$#) pc's fault:D
What I would've liked was a better shot at the scales. because they kinda look pine-cone to me and unless your fish is a mix, I only know Matsuba and Kujaku that are metallic and have scales like that.
Search kujaku and Gin Matsuba and take a good look "at the scales" notice how each one is well defined (like a pine cone)and compare those of your koi ...if they look nothing like it, then I'd say you have a Dragon (Kikokuryu or "kin kikokuryu if it develops other colors) and that would definitely explain the rapid and frequent changes in patterns

Please don't get me wrong, even if it turns out to be a mixed breed, it is still a wonderful specimen, all recognized breeds started out by mixing different kinds!:)

I hope this helped!
Hi Thanks for your reply someone had a look at him and said hes a kage shiro utsuri and suppose he does look like one,
Do you think he is one.
 
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Hi Thanks for your reply someone had a look at him and said hes a kage shiro utsuri and suppose he does look like one,
Do you think he is one.

Who's the "someone" @j and d ? Do you have reason to think they may not know what they're talking about?

We'd love to see the pond this guy is in!
 
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Hi Thanks for your reply someone had a look at him and said hes a kage shiro utsuri and suppose he does look like one,
Do you think he is one.
I'm familiar with Shiro Utsuri (ki Utsuru, Hi Utsuri) but I've never even heard of the term "Kage" , perhaps it is a new term (breed) or a different way to name koi used outside of the US.(?)
Either way I'm sorry, but my knowledge is far too basic to help you further.
 
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Who's the "someone" @j and d ? Do you have reason to think they may not know what they're talking about?

We'd love to see the pond this guy is in!
It was someone who wants to buy him off me desperately lol I just like to be sure that's all iv looked in to it more and think that is what he is.
 
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I'm familiar with Shiro Utsuri (ki Utsuru, Hi Utsuri) but I've never even heard of the term "Kage" , perhaps it is a new term (breed) or a different way to name koi used outside of the US.(?)
Either way I'm sorry, but my knowledge is far too basic to help you further.
Kage shiro utsuri koi - a koi whose black and white utsuri pattern is overlaid buy a kage pattern on white markings.
Kage basically means shadowing
 
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Kage shiro utsuri koi - a koi whose black and white utsuri pattern is overlaid buy a kage pattern on white markings.
Kage basically means shadowing
I did some reading, as expected like with a lot of other koi related things I found a different meaning than what you found.
According to my reading the word "kage" in this particular case (Kage Shiro Utsuri) is used to describe the "raised" Sumi (black)...which of the two definitions is the correct one it really doesn't matter much, I did a search on kage Shiro Utsuri and I'd say yes, the description does fit the look of your koi (I even compared the scales) and that's all that matters at this point.

Thank you for posting this thread, and giving me the chance to learn something new! :)
 
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I did some reading, as expected like with a lot of other koi related things I found a different meaning than what you found.
According to my reading the word "kage" in this particular case (Kage Shiro Utsuri) is used to describe the "raised" Sumi (black)...which of the two definitions is the correct one it really doesn't matter much, I did a search on kage Shiro Utsuri and I'd say yes, the description does fit the look of your koi (I even compared the scales) and that's all that matters at this point.

Thank you for posting this thread, and giving me the chance to learn something new! :)
Yeah true there's always at least two different answers to koi related things, it always leaves me confused
 

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