Charles, there's a forum intended for goldfish breeders, called Site for Goldfish Keepers, where there is a lot of information about breeding, and plenty of arguments about genetics. There is a book by Joseph Smartt called Goldfish Varieties and Genetics that you can find online, and if you search a bit you can get a free download.
As for the prestige of goldfish vs koi, it probably has a lot to do with size and the resulting cost of keeping them. People can breed and grow show quality goldfish in tubs in their backyard. That is certainly not true of koi. It costs more to produce koi, so they are more expensive. Expense adds prestige and prestige raises prices. Big is considered desirable and koi get big.
Dave, I don't see any disagreement. The first record of selectively breeding red and white as well as red/orange goldfish was in the 13th century. Since information didn't move so fast back then, I assumed that such selective breeding had been going on for a while, and said about 1000 years ago. Goldfish had already been kept in ornamental ponds for centuries before that, but even emperors had only ponds of "gold and silver" goldfish, not multicolored ones.
I said "koi were first selectively bred in the 1800s", and you said "Koi keepers started selective breeding in 1870." That sounds the same to me.
Would you happen to know how large the gene pool is for Goldfish shakaho I know that in the koi world the acctual gene pool is quite small and the purer the koi the more they suffer with their Immune system's.
Attempt's have been made to try to rectify this by going back to the koi's roots and breed with a magio (eating carp)but sadly the colours produced by this union are rather dull as such they arent comercially saleble at this present time.
Personally I would go to Newzealand where koi are concidered pest to look for a stronger gene as the koi there are feral.
The are trashing the New Zealand native species thus the pest status , they have shooting parties to see who can bag the most to try and rid theirselves of them , so far it isnt working.
"The Butterfly koi may well be the way forwards a union between koi and Indoneasian River Carp", sadly we take forever to catch up in the UK and the BKKS wont recognse them.
I'm also wondering about the mixing of Israeli koi with Japanese or Britsh koi with Japanese perhaps this may well be the wy forwards for them but I doubt if they have thought of it yet.Many thanx for the information about goldfish , this answers alott of questions .
Is it true that if you put a number of male and female Fancies together in a pond and just let them get on wih life, that within seven generations they would be breeding true again i;e back to normal goldfish.
Perhaps you could also answer this question for us as well......
Regarding Koi Herpes Virus and the Goldfish Herpes Virus which came first do the goldfish experts have the answer to that ?.
Thinking of that I also wonder if the Koi in the Only two States that allow them in Australia "no Imports ",have possibly the only koi in the world that dont have the koi herpes virus.......
rgrds
Dave
