CW's Back Yard Water Garden Begins!

[jgrandmont]

And I need to figure out how to manage population without a lot of work...

When I was keeping platy fish in my indoor aquarium, I was getting lots of babies. I would occasionally round them up and take them to a local pet store which happily accepted them. It was a little bit of a hassle, but not too bad.

 

[Lisak1]

Our local hometown pet store will take donations of fish, too. Not so much the PetSmart types.

Herons will go for the big fish - and often they won't even eat them if they're too big. Just stab them and toss them on the ground to die.

I know there are some here who do yearly round ups of all the pond babies they get, but we've never had to worry about it. When we had koi, we never got a single baby, even though they spawned on the regular. Our goldfish do successfully breed, but it's generally a couple of babies that survive a year. I'd worry about that bridge when you come to it... because it may never happen. Watch for spawning, stop feeding, and let nature take it's course. You might be fine.

As for the predators - build some hiding spots in the pond, get lots of plant cover going, run some aerators to provide a "bubble curtain" and give your fish at least a fighting chance. The birds can't catch what they can't see. We are surrounded by natural water and have herons and egrets flying overhead many times per day - never had a problem. Although our backyard is pretty tight with fence, trees, house, all pretty close to the pond - I don't think they like to land where they don't have an easy escape route.

 

[jgrandmont]

Our local hometown pet store will take donations of fish, too. Not so much the PetSmart types.

Yes, should have been more specific about that. It's the small mom & pop, independent stores that have taken fish off my hands. PetCo and PetSmart will not accept them. There must be some kind of company policy that prevents it.

 

[addy1]

few fish turn into a lot of fish without active "management."

Fantails breed slow stay small might be something you would want. But they are slow and herons do love them. I lost all in my hot tub pond when I forgot to net it last January before I had to go to Florida to deal with a deceased tenant. The heron had a very nice sushi bar

 

[bagsmom]

I have always been amazed at how nature keeps my pond population under control. I just have goldfish. I don't feed them (except now and again to keep them social) and they seem to gobble up most of the eggs. Each year, a few survive to be adults - but each year, a few are lost to predators or the stress of spawning. I net the pond in the fall because of leaves. But If I didn't, I think I'd have even more visiting predators through the fall and winter. As an aside -- when I get in my pond to do a bigger clean up, it is hysterically funny to have the fish nibbling at my toes. Your daughter might get a big kick out of it!

 

[Lisak1]

I'm also amazed how fearless they are when I get in the pond - they seem to know I'm busy with other things! Sometimes they get just a TAD TOO CLOSE. haha!

 

[addy1]

They love me walking in the pond, hoping that I squish a snail! I wish I could leave the net off, but the heron has already wiped out my hot tub pond of fan tails, wiped out my 1000 gallon tank of 50% of the fish, (I forgot to net it when leaving town)

So net needs to stay on, but non feeding, a loss now and then, my population is pretty stable.

 

[frogbath]

Good call on the redesign! I was getting anxiety watching the first video about all the sewer lines and everything else. Yikes. Can't wait to see how it comes out.

 

[GBBUDD]

Your going to want your waterfall looking at your patio area and relatively close around 20 feet so you not only want to see but also hear it . Not knowing your house layout but looking at the deck and the patio I would put the waterfall in the corner of the property or slightly out of the corner will look more natural. . Build up along the fence that way you can build up the area toward the bamboo. I am assuming that is bamboo. Some of which can be very agressive and strong roots that can easily puncture your liner . While your digging and possibly building up the back you could place something like concrete board or azeck sheeting standing on edge to help control the roots. But beware your neighbors my get a little up tight when the roots have grown under the fence. You are going to have a good deal of soil so much so if you plan to swim in the pond at least 3 feet or more your going to change your drainage platen to the back yard and it may inadvertently send water to your neighbor and flood them out where they never had issues before. You have a tight space there and every action can have a reaction that could become serious headaches.
How deep are you thinking? I heard you say take a dip .
Don't know if you saw this video youtube / worlds most beautiful backyard ponds.
You seem to have done some home work but take it from a first time builder himself theres all kinds of hidden surprises coming your way. Shelves, there heights, depths , angle, pitches, fish caves. Soft or rocky soils. Like your self seeing hints of the past, i dug up the old construction burn and dump area. Including LOTS AND LOTS OF GLASS.
I would shift the pond so that the top landing of the stairs is at the pond / stream area so when your at the top of the stairs your looking at the fish Right below your rail. One of the coolest effects I have seen on YouTube is long ponds or wide deep streams where the fish swim from one end to the other cobstantly a very cool aspects one with your narrow lots may work well.
I admire your take no prisoners plan of attack and not intimidated going large. Good luck and ask any question you may have. We are all willing to throw are two cents in to help.

 

[combatwombat]

Your going to want your waterfall looking at your patio area and relatively close around 20 feet so you not only want to see but also hear it . Not knowing your house layout but looking at the deck and the patio I would put the waterfall in the corner of the property or slightly out of the corner will look more natural. . Build up along the fence that way you can build up the area toward the bamboo.

The patio is gone! Putting back something else once the pond is in. Waterfall from wetland will be visible from new patio. Waterfall is going to be pretty wimpy as I’m not planning to build much of a mound for it to fall from, and we’re okay with that. We’ll have a long-ish gentle creek with some cascading step pools that, I think, will give us a calming soundscape.

I would put the waterfall in the corner of the property

Corner of property is going to be a gravel fire pit area. Possibly w/ a bridge to it. Will also be the overflow area for the pond in winter with a dry well placed to accept overflow.

I am assuming that is bamboo. Some of which can be very agressive and strong roots that can easily puncture your liner

It is bamboo. Fargesia Robusta. Clumping bamboo that behaves itself. Stays a bit compact in full sun, where the pond is. Was installed in a trench w/ root barrier along fence line for extra reassurance to neighbors.

How deep are you thinking?

Was thinking 3’ at deepest section. Wife decided last minute she’d like it to be 4’. What’s a few more scoops with the digger? Haha.

Thinking I’ll do pretty wide shelves (2-3’ wide) and set them at 14”, 14”, and 20” for total depth of 48”. Plan to set rocks at least 16” tall to allow 2” of gravel on top of shelf, held back by wall rocks. That sets top shelf at 12” depth with some media For planting marginals. Next shelf actual depth of 26” for lillies.
Haven’t really thought through marginals. Just figured 12” would give me lots of options and if something needs shallower, I can build up in spots since the shelves should be wide enough.

Feedback on that plan is welcome.

I would shift the pond so that the top landing of the stairs is at the pond / stream area so when your at the top of the stairs your looking at the fish Right below your rail. One of the coolest effects I have seen on YouTube is long ponds or wide deep streams where the fish swim from one end to the other cobstantly a very cool aspects one with your narrow lots may work well.

I actually had that same thought. Not really moving the pond, but adding a deep stream along the deck railing that fish could swim up. Don’t know the right depth, though to encourage that.

I admire your take no prisoners plan of attack and not intimidated going large.

Thanks.I think the advice that struck me most is whenI read an article on Pond Trade Mag by an industry veteran who said he’d never once encountered a client who wished their pond were smaller, but many who wished it were bigger. Figured I might as well go as big as my lot will reasonably allow.

 

[GBBUDD]

The patio is gone! Putting back something else once the pond is in. Waterfall from wetland will be visible from new patio. Waterfall is going to be pretty wimpy as I’m not planning to build much of a mound for it to fall from, and we’re okay with that. We’ll have a long-ish gentle creek with some cascading step pools that, I think, will give us a calming soundscape.




Corner of property is going to be a gravel fire pit area. Possibly w/ a bridge to it. Will also be the overflow area for the pond in winter with a dry well placed to accept overflow.




It is bamboo. Fargesia Robusta. Clumping bamboo that behaves itself. Stays a bit compact in full sun, where the pond is. Was installed in a trench w/ root barrier along fence line for extra reassurance to neighbors.



Was thinking 3’ at deepest section. Wife decided last minute she’d like it to be 4’. What’s a few more scoops with the digger? Haha.

Thinking I’ll do pretty wide shelves (2-3’ wide) and set them at 14”, 14”, and 20” for total depth of 48”. Plan to set rocks at least 16” tall to allow 2” of gravel on top of shelf, held back by wall rocks. That sets top shelf at 12” depth with some media For planting marginals. Next shelf actual depth of 26” for lillies.
Haven’t really thought through marginals. Just figured 12” would give me lots of options and if something needs shallower, I can build up in spots since the shelves should be wide enough.

Feedback on that plan is welcome.
All of my water falls are around 12 to 16 inches tall. While I wish they were taller . The taller loose more water through splashing and evaporation.
If your going to rock the pond I'd have depressions in the shelves to seat your rocks to help hold them in and or do the same in your marginal areas especially your areas where you plan to have lillies it will collect sediment from the pond yes but it will also feed the lillies and you can control the Lilly in the dug out trench. But make it as smooth as possible id even place a second layer of rubber in this depression so when its time to pull the Lilly out you can just lift the second rubber linner.



I actually had that same thought. Not really moving the pond, but adding a deep stream along the deck railing that fish could swim up. Don’t know the right depth, though to encourage that.

I have added a 24 to 30 inch deep stream off to the side of the main pond while they will go in there they hang in the 6 foot deep area far more frequently




Thanks.I think the advice that struck me most is whenI read an article on Pond Trade Mag by an industry veteran who said he’d never once encountered a client who wished their pond were smaller, but many who wished it were bigger. Figured I might as well go as big as my lot will reasonably allow.

Well you have now my electric bill is 300 a month for running the pumps to my pond but I am in the pathetic state of Connecticut. Officialy we now have the most expensive electric bill in the country . I run a 12000 gph as my main pump and a 500 for the cistern just to keep it moving.

 

[Lisak1]

Figured I might as well go as big as my lot will reasonably allow.

You're right! Pond pros say customers usually get three ponds - big, bigger and biggest... might as well build the last one as your only!

I may have missed this, but if you're planning steppers across the stream from the deck, just make sure you set them high enough. We have a tiny stream with what we thought would be a good stepper, but that thing gets VERY SLIPPERY even though it's above water. I think it gets just enough splash that it's always a tad damp.

 

[combatwombat]

@GBBUDD: $300/mo to run 12k gph? Holy crap! What’s the power requirement on your pump? And what do you pay per kwh? That’s insane.

@Lisa K: That’s the idea. And good call on the steppers.

 

[GBBUDD]

The price is get the hell out of dodge. Ct has lost a million people this year as has callifornia Washington and New York is probably 3 times that amount a n d what is the one common denominator give everyone everything for free except those who pay into the system. Well good luck paying for your bleeding hearts we're out.
Sorry not directed at your self if it came off that way .

 

[combatwombat]

The price is get the hell out of dodge. Ct has lost a million people this year as has callifornia Washington and New York is probably 3 times that amount a n d what is the one common denominator give everyone everything for free except those who pay into the system. Well good luck paying for your bleeding hearts we're out.
Sorry not directed at your self if it came off that way .

Ok, but what about your pump power requirements and cost per kWh? I’m trying to figure out what running the pond will actually cost.

Looks like in CT, average cost is about 22c/kwh. That’s very steep, but how can it possibly come out to $300?

That would mean your pump consumes 1,364 kwh per month, which is more than I use to power an all electric 2500sf house for most months of the year.

I’m in Washington. We have hydroelectric from all the dams on the Columbia River. I pay 8.2c/kwh.