Dying fish please help

[Dave 54]

Hi PD so you've got yourself ito a bit od a bine at the moment, ok so lets take a look at things for you I have a 1,000 gallon Imperial pond much smaller than yours but with large and medium koi in it who are all as happy as Larry .
Like yours ours are in direct sunlight from Midday onwards our water is clean yours is green so where are you going wrong ???
Ok for starters you didn't QT your goldfish (It should take about a month) this gives any Parasite time to show itself prior to new fish going in the pond ow you suspect ich .
Your pond is one huge lung at the moment in the day time its producing Oxygen but at night it starts producing CO2 starving your fish of Oxygen are you starting to get a picture now ?
When you filled the pond what happened prior to you getting green water, did it first go milky white ?
Very Imporyant, how much did you feed your fish, did your dip sticks show a major spike in Ammonia and Nitrite, if not why not i;e didnt you test the water .
Next for your size pond I doubt you have enough filtration for the pond and its wieght in fish so it may help to add a larger one,
I also suggest you buy a Large Airpump one with a multi gang socket and add air to both your filters and your pond ( they can have up to twelve sockts in one gang).....
Shade for your pond , may we suggest you look into shading your pond a little weve done this by use of a large Sunshade but you can buy sails to give shade too.
Buy yourself a Pond test kit either made by API or Tetra they are both very good the dip stick tests are notoriously unsound in their readings , test weekly ,
You have to look at the pond this way first you must get the waters right otherwise you cannot support life as you are now finding
Please do yourself a favour I can garentee will tturn you around and get you to understanding things buy a good book on fish and how to treat them and read it this way you will gain great insite as yo what you should do .
The book we recomend is the The Interpet Manuel of Fish Health by Dr Chris Andrews Adryan Exell and Dr Neville Carrington ISBN 1842860674 its the book that turned it all around for us , now 27 years later we try and help folk undertand our hobby so as they dont get to loose anymore fish and who in turn can pass on that knowledge in years to come.
Read it I promise you you'll see the light .


rgrds


Dave

 

[pdpond]

Wow that's a lot of info all at once, thank you guys

here is an update
2 days ago I did a major water exchange and hooked up a UV light (55W 4400gph flow rate) when I was doing the water exchange I noticed that one of the fish was gasping for air at the surface, so I figured he was on his way out, yesterday as I suspected he turned up dead, but was at the bottom of the pond so I scooped him out (yesterday being the first day in weeks I could actually see past the first foot of water), today I went out for my morning check up on the pond, everything seems better, no dead fish, the water is so clear I can see a maple key sitting on the filter box
Soooo, from the little I have learned and what you guys are teaching me, I have a feeling correct me if I'm wrong but I think I had so much single cell algae, that through the night the fish were starving for oxygen and dying off, only once have I found a dead fish throughout the day, the other 10 or so have died over night,
the temperature dropped 20* here for the last couple of days and I stopped feeding them, even cleaning the loose garbage off the shallow end of the pond when I did the water exchange

 

[Dave 54]

Yes but it was the algea acting as a whole that depleted the Oxygen each night .
Remember when doing a water change always take the ponds temperature over that of your tap water.
There is a trick of trickling in water at a very slow rate where the ambient temperature of the pond will take up the water and warm it to pond temperature .
buy your self a dechlorination unit it'll last for tens thousands of gallons over that of the dechlorination fluid .just google it in for ideas,
The U/V-C is it a double or single bulb , if its single change once a year every year if a double bulb change once every two years.


rgrds

Dave

 

[pdpond]

Hey I did something right lol, I actually trickled the water in, I think it took 4 hrs to fill 40% of the pond, I did concider the water temp and figured it would be a shock to the fish if I just went wide open on my 3/4" water line (it took just over an hour for the initial filling of the pond a couple months ago)

The UV bulb is a double bulb, but the company still recommended once a year change of it, which I'm ok with

I will look into the dechlorinator unit right now

Don

 

[Dave 54]

Don who's U/V-C is it, is it Tetra, Aqua Pond. or one of the others.
I think your being mis quoted there a double bulb which we have in ours and is is 36 watts.
It is recomended to be changed every two years.
Is it an Interpet make perhaps ?


rgrds


Dave

 

[pdpond]

I'm pretty sure its a Chinese brand its call Jebao, but I couldn't find any bad reviews for it, I bought it off of Fleabay at a reasonable price, so I thought what the hey, it can't hurt at this point

 

[pdpond]

fishin4cars

I would take a picture of the sick fish but I can't, they only pop up dead the next morning there was only one fish in the beginning that seemed to have white spots on it, that's why we assumed ich, the fish that pop up dead lately have no signs of stress whatsoever, the odd one may have a couple scales missing but that's it, no fin rott, no gill rott, nothing that's why I'm baffled, well I was, I'm starting to believe from the good folks on here it was an algae problem starving the fish for oxygen

 

[Mmathis]

Pd, I'm so happy to see that things are turning around for you .

 

[BlueOrca]

pdpond, as with all the other information you have been given (algae bloom oxygen depletion, new pond syndrome etc.) the major swing in temperatures for us (I'm near Windsor) can cause thermal kill in fish, especially in a new pond where they are stressed (85 degrees 2 days ago, 41 degrees today). I am in a similar situation as you, new 2500 gallon pond, 3100 gph pump, 12 new fish (3 inchers), plants in but not growing much and lots of bloomin' algae. I lost one of my small koi, with no signs of stress, disease or damage. There are so many variables I am learning, biggest of which seem to be "bad" water and stressing the fish. My pond has just started to clear up as well with the quilt batting method. (I also have raccoon tracks in my backyard I have recently learned, and great blue herons in the area!)

 

[Mmathis]

There are so many variables I am learning, biggest of which seem to be "bad" water and stressing the fish. My pond has just started to clear up as well with the quilt batting method. (I also have raccoon tracks in my backyard I have recently learned, and great blue herons in the area!)

And often it's not necessarily any ONE thing, but a combination of things or events.

At least (as far as we know) we don't have predator problems (knock on wood!)! Geesh, it's enough just keeping up with the pond stuff and would hate having to add preds. to the equation

 

[Litzi1964]

I agree that the pond is overcrowded and the nitrates are high. I suggest adding an ammonia chlorine nitrate remover. The water is also mildly acidic. Try adding some calcium carbonate or baking soda. Also, there's no such thing as an over-aerated pond. I suggest getting an additional 350 or 400 gph pump and attaching a fountainhead. I also suggest a source of beneficial bacteria and barley extract to help the nitrogen cycle. What you might also do as an emergency measure is get a little kiddie pool from walmart or target. Get a pump for aeration and put some of the fish in there to lessen the load on your pond. Don't forget dechlorinator! My thoughts are with you.

 

[Litzi1964]

Oh you didn't mention any plants. I suggest a few water lettuces or water hyacinths to kickstart the nitrogen cycle

 

[pdpond]

BlueOrca, I can't really contribute any deaths to the cold, its really only been cold here the last two days and that's when the fish dying stopped, but I agree the quick changes in weather can't be all that good for the fish

Litzi1964 all the things you mentioned doing sound great but at what amounts? I do have a fountain already, and it does run on occasion, if I would have figured the fish were dying from oxygen deprivation I would have turned it on for sure over night, but now that the dying has stopped and the water is getting clearer by the day, do I really need that extra oxygen? everything was fine until the last two weeks when I got this terrible algae bloom, it was the second one but the first cleared itself up in about a week with no casualties

I've been out at the pond a few times today and the fish are looking good, they are coming up the the surface for food and darting around the pond again, so I'm feeling good about this stage of my ponding experience being over but I wont be confident for another few days of no floating goldies

About the plants, we have had plants before this incident, there were 3 water lettuce (which in my opion suck in direct sunlight) there were two types of underwater plants and 2 small hyacinths, yesterday we went and picked up 5 large hyacinths and 2 lillies, the water lettuce got run over by the lawnmower today, they were ugly and a waste of money, the seller mislead us completely when selling them to us, lucky we did get our money back for them

 

[fishin4cars]

I'm not going to say it isn't oxygen depletion from algae, But I really have a hard time believing it's all oxygen related problems that have caused all this. With a water fall and a turn over rate like your stating I just have a hard time believing it's in fact oxygen depletion, If it was I really think you would have seen more fish gasping for air at the surface. again like I posted earlier, adding oxygen isn't going to hurt anything, and may help. But with it clearing that fast, and the symptoms described I really think it could be a new pond cycling issue, a gran negative bacterial infection (Only way to know for certain is by having a scrape and scope done of a living fish to determine this and not be guessing) or a chemical reaction between the source water and the pond water or a chemical reaction by something getting in the pond, such as insecticide, fertilizer, insect spray or other aerosol type spray. It may be a blessing in disguise though. Lowering the population and asking questions at least now you have a better control on the situation and are at the right spot where you can ask and at least get some educated or experienced knowledge as to what may be happening and plans of action to take.
Barley extract will not help the nitrogen cycle, If anything it will only help in some control of algae species at best,. Even that is of some debate. plants however could really help, they will help shade the pond, keep it cooler and more stable, help remove Nitrates, help protect the fish from possible predators, plus, they simply help bring out the natural beauty of a pond. again something that can be added that may help and should not hurt anything. AS LONG AS THEY ARE CLEANED AND NOT INTRODUCING ANOTHER PARASITE OR BACTERIA TO THE POND. RINSING ANY NEW PLANTS IN FRESH WATER OR LOW SALT SOLUTION WILL HELP PREVET THE ADDITION OF MOST PARASITES. Again, this is why Quarantine is important, isolating anything that is living and going to be added to the pond will help a lot in limiting the possibilities of adding unwanted diseases to your pond. 3-4 week QT is the minimum I recommend QTing a fish and 1-3 weeks on plants.

 

[ALLINKDUP]

Hi Don....I just wanted to throw a coupla things out there for you to think about....foremost do you have well water or city water...i never heard you mention dechlor when you were talking about the trickle fill-up...40% is a lot to refill w/out dechlor.....next....you have what are called, C F U's...or Colony Forming Units....imagine if you will, your fish' slime and skin..even it's insides....in that slime you have millions of organisms called cfu's, living peaceably on a healthy fish and raging war with a sick fish....I will use Ich for an example here since it was mentioned earlier in the post..in those millions of organisms, we will say your healthy fish in your pond have a cfu count of 20000 ppm's of ich on it's person and you throw your newly acquired fish in, that , let's say, has a cfu count of 5000....for the healthy fish in your pond to have a cfu of 20K means that there are obviously more way more CFU's of ich floating around in the WATER for the healthy fish to have a count of 20K, than your new fish, that hopefully had been properly qt'd wherever you got the fish from, would be able to fight off or sustain those numbers that are 4X higher than what is on the new fish...I know it sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo but you take in to consideration that there are dozens, even hundreds of different types of organisms in your pond and on your fish, and add that to the already stressed fish that you are introducing and you can throw their immune system and protocol right out the window and you have a crap shoot at best....it sounds like some others here are offering good bits of advice....just remember we are on the interweb here and just because it is on the web doesn't make it true...but I bet my explanation of cfu's is a lot easier to understand than the one from my biology professor neighbor...his is way too long and boring...yawn...LOL...Billy