Expansion

[Cj Harvey]

im sure there are lots of threads about what types of filters is best. But I'm curious about my unique situation.

I currently have a 900gallon koi pond with a skimmer and waterfall. Both filter out deris and fish waste.
I live in southern New Jersey with very few trees around. During fall when all the leaves are dropping I do get some leaves in the pond. But the skimmer can't get them all anyway.

So since I'm expanding the pond to 4600 gallons I've been looking into new filters. I would like to do a skimmer to catch any floating debris. But I feel bottom drains might filter better for as large as I am going. The pond will be very long (41') and fairly narrow (3-4'). I picked out a filter aquadyne 8000eh. A bit expensive but I really like the backflush option. And I plan to install the filter in my basement.

So for my questions. Is that filter a good filter? It has good reviews.
Can I hook that type of filter to skimmers and bottom drains together?
I've also attached a drawing of how the pond will look when I'm done. A few things have changed from this drawing but it's still pretty accurate.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Many ponds have both skimmers and bottom drains.

 

[IPA]

I am still new to all of this and what I think I know is from research and not experience. I am expanding from a tiny "pond" to something half the size you current have. Originally the plan was a few thousand gallon pond but having a bad back it was too ambitious of a project so I settled for something in between. I was planning on a gravity feed bottom drain, ( to be effective the bottom has to sloop to 1 or multiple bottom drains), into a large settlement tank. Then through particle separation tanks, finally through biological filtration back into the pond. A skimmer would have been used all connected through various manifolds and valves allowing variations of flow, back flushing, and draining or sludge. From an engineering point of view it was both fascinating and complex.
Then I met a "bogger" , the owner of the only pond store in a metropolitan area of 1.7 million people which I don't get. He only had to describe it once, I was sold immediately. Of course he would sell me the bottom drain but he recommended against it. The only people that regretted putting in a bottom drain were the people that put in a bottom drain. I got it immediately and when he described the bog system my eyes light with interest. This is what sold me: To utilize a bottom drain a settlement tank is needed, agreed, but instead, build the bog in what would have been the tank, which if you think about it, is a waste of space and where are you going to put it in the landscape?
He's a skimmer guy, uses and only sells Savio, but one cost more than everything else combined on my smaller pond.
In my pond, the small version now agreed upon with my girlfriend, looking out for my health, I have decided to avoid a skimmer; the thought of having fish die in it, fry and tadpoles being consumed by it, and due to the small size of the pond. A pond the size of the one you have planned maybe should have a skimmer. I scoured this forum trying to learn what the "boggers" here were using. Addy's initial set up was perfect and many here have skimmers they only turn on as needed. I would purchase or engineer a no niche skimmer to use on a temporary bases as needed.
I just wanted to share how I got from the hard core Koi enthusiast school of thought, basically keeping giant fish in fish only tanks, growing and feeding Koi as quickly as possible to the garden pond point of view, creating a harmonious balance of plant and fish life in an ecosystem made to be low maintenance and enjoyed because of the simple beauty of the natural environment.

 

[Cj Harvey]

I am still new to all of this and what I think I know is from research and not experience. I am expanding from a tiny "pond" to something half the size you current have. Originally the plan was a few thousand gallon pond but having a bad back it was too ambitious of a project so I settled for something in between. I was planning on a gravity feed bottom drain, ( to be effective the bottom has to sloop to 1 or multiple bottom drains), into a large settlement tank. Then through particle separation tanks, finally through biological filtration back into the pond. A skimmer would have been used all connected through various manifolds and valves allowing variations of flow, back flushing, and draining or sludge. From an engineering point of view it was both fascinating and complex.
Then I met a "bogger" , the owner of the only pond store in a metropolitan area of 1.7 million people which I don't get. He only had to describe it once, I was sold immediately. Of course he would sell me the bottom drain but he recommended against it. The only people that regretted putting in a bottom drain were the people that put in a bottom drain. I got it immediately and when he described the bog system my eyes light with interest. This is what sold me: To utilize a bottom drain a settlement tank is needed, agreed, but instead, build the bog in what would have been the tank, which if you think about it, is a waste of space and where are you going to put it in the landscape?
He's a skimmer guy, uses and only sells Savio, but one cost more than everything else combined on my smaller pond.
In my pond, the small version now agreed upon with my girlfriend, looking out for my health, I have decided to avoid a skimmer; the thought of having fish die in it, fry and tadpoles being consumed by it, and due to the small size of the pond. A pond the size of the one you have planned maybe should have a skimmer. I scoured this forum trying to learn what the "boggers" here were using. Addy's initial set up was perfect and many here have skimmers they only turn on as needed. I would purchase or engineer a no niche skimmer to use on a temporary bases as needed.
I just wanted to share how I got from the hard core Koi enthusiast school of thought, basically keeping giant fish in fish only tanks, growing and feeding Koi as quickly as possible to the garden pond point of view, creating a harmonious balance of plant and fish life in an ecosystem made to be low maintenance and enjoyed because of the simple beauty of the natural environment.

I read Addy's post also got me heading towards a bog. I'm actually trying to do all the calculations on the size of the bog now. He mentioned pulling the water from about a foot above the bottom. I have to find a good flange to install in that position. I don't want to suck any fish into the pump. My fish have been having babies like crazy this year. I started with 7 koi and two gold fish. Now it appears I have an extra 15 new fish that per this forum are goldfish. Possible goldfish koi hybrids. So now I'm on a time crunch to expand or I'll risk loosing fish due to over crowding. Of an I have a albino catfish as well.

 

[sissy]

My pond 5000 gallons has no skimmer no bottom drain .I have an aerator with 12 ports with air stones at different heights and 2 filters with an air stone in each one .I just use a swimming pool net to clean the bottom .

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Do not find yourself developing the mind-set that a 'bog' will also serve as a settlement chamber and work efficiently. You will be setting yourself up for issues.
When utilized correctly 'bogs' are a great addition to any pond containing fish.

 

[Cj Harvey]

Do not find yourself developing the mind-set that a 'bog' will also serve as a settlement chamber and work efficiently. You will be setting yourself up for issues.
When utilized correctly 'bogs' are a great addition to any pond containing fish.

I was under the impression that all you need when using a bog large enough to handle your pond is a prefilter to catch large material like leaves and floating plant life that could clog up the bog bed. Do you still need membrane or fiber filters to catch small particals? My waterfall filter plugs up all the time from fish waste. And my skimmer catches some waste and large debris like algae and leaves.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

A 'bog' will perform very similar to a waterfall filter. Whatever suspended solids that are not captured by mechanical filtration will be introduced to the waterfall filter or 'bog' as the case may be. This TSS will not breakdown any faster in a 'bog' than in a waterfall filter (or any other biofilter for that matter). The genesis of 'bogs' in a Garden Pond began with the advent of engineered constructed wetlands. Pond 'bogs' are an adaption. It is important to realize that these constructed wetlands, even as large as many are (acres) are constructed to 'polish' the water through the use of aquatic plants and exposure of the water to the natural UV in sunlight. By 'polish' is meant the removal of Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Heavy metals, pharma and other man-made pollutants. Adequate mechanical filtration is provided to remove much of the TSS from the water before it is introduced into these large wetlands. Even with this precaution, these wetlands will, over time, clog.
'Bogs' are a great addition to the filtration in any pond, but they are not the trouble-free wonder cure that many profess them to be.

 

[Cj Harvey]

A 'bog' will perform very similar to a waterfall filter. Whatever suspended solids that are not captured by mechanical filtration will be introduced to the waterfall filter or 'bog' as the case may be. This TSS will not breakdown any faster in a 'bog' than in a waterfall filter (or any other biofilter for that matter). The genesis of 'bogs' in a Garden Pond began with the advent of engineered constructed wetlands. Pond 'bogs' are an adaption. It is important to realize that these constructed wetlands, even as large as many are (acres) are constructed to 'polish' the water through the use of aquatic plants and exposure of the water to the natural UV in sunlight. By 'polish' is meant the removal of Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Heavy metals, pharma and other man-made pollutants. Adequate mechanical filtration is provided to remove much of the TSS from the water before it is introduced into these large wetlands. Even with this precaution, these wetlands will, over time, clog.
'Bogs' are a great addition to the filtration in any pond, but they are not the trouble-free wonder cure that many profess them to be.

i can understand nothing being completely trouble free. What I want is to have a beautiful area of plants that helps clean my pond. As well as not having to pull and clean filters weekly. I have no problem cleaning out baskets once a week to catch large debris. So if the fish waste that escapes the first set of filters is digested by the plants and once every 2-5 years the bog has to be cleaned out I'd be ok with that. Right now the way I have it designed the bog will be about 30% the surface area of my pond. I decided to go larger so hopefully it will work better.