First attempt at a large pond

Discussion in 'Pond Construction & Equipment' started by Telion, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. Telion

    Telion

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    Very much agree to this. I bought it before realizing I wanted more natural harmonized filtration. But now that o have it I will see what it does. Thank you for the advice though because now I know contrary to what I would have done in terms of if I get undesired algae to remove it and see if it improves.
     
    Telion, Mar 8, 2018
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  2. Telion

    Telion

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    Lol so glad you said that. The waterfall should create a bit of movement as should the circulation through the bog. In anticipation of all this I have become pump happy.

    I have purchased 4 3200 gph submersible utility pumps and a 5600 gph sump pump. With the sump pimp I am aware of the cautions but think it will be fine intermittently to power the falls and could not pass up the deal it was a 200.00 pump on sale for 50.00. Honestly I might buy another tomorrow.
     
    Telion, Mar 8, 2018
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  3. Telion

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    are you planning on using the sump pump just for the falls, and using it intermittently? I'd keep the falls always on (wfall is also for aeration, which helps stop free floating algae too) during the warm seasons and find a way to tee off one of your (4?) submersibles. I know you got the sump pump cheap but they aren't meant to be run continuously, unlike a dedicated pond pump.

    Jus' sayin'...
     
    brokensword, Mar 8, 2018
    #23
  4. Telion

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Mine gets water from a foot off the bottom, almost 8 years now and no clogging.
    nah size of texas
    My bog is around 1/4-1/3 the size of the pond. It is 27ft x 4 ft. The pond is 27ft x 15ish feet.

    3-4 inches of gravel is pretty shallow. imho, The plants will fill that gravel with roots. I would stick with a layer more like 12-18 inches.
    Mine is 2.5 feet deep, mainly because the bog digger, me, dug it that deep. Sort of went crazy with the tractor. And less dirt needed to make the down slope dirt berm I needed to make a flat spot in our yard.

    I don't use a uv, no need, never have green water issues.



    And beautiful view you have there! Love it
     
    addy1, Mar 8, 2018
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  5. Telion

    Telion

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    Correct it will be used intermittently. But you got me thinking and I could run one of the pumps T'd into the sump pump line as to create continuous flow. It also made me think because the top of the falls is so high I could stage it across a couple of pumps two tied together to push the water to the top of the falls (the sump pumps) and one submersible that only goes half way up that I can run continuously. I think this is the direction I will go. Then I will use one submersible pump to power the skimmer and another to run a few jets around the pond and one for the bottom drain.

    20180308_170801_001.jpg
    20180308_170126.jpg
    I will take your advice and run at least a foot deep on the gravel for the bog. And I think I will place it in the area of the pink plant bucket in the last pic.

    A little hard to put this in perspective you can't see the depth in this pic but you can see the pergola and the view.
    20180308_170801_001.jpg

    This is a pic from the top of where the falls will be tomorrow I will measure the actual distance from the top to the pond, if I had to guess I would say its about 20 feet.
    20180308_170126.jpg
    This shot gives the best perspective of the height of the waterfall for size reference those are 16' boards and the pergola is 10x14'
    20180308_170807.jpg
     
    Telion, Mar 9, 2018
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  6. Telion

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    T: if you're thinking to use two pumps to increase flow, I don't think the extra pump will increase your head pressure (by piggy-backing). That is, I think you'd be better off just having one of your subs dedicated to the falls; you'll get continuous aeration, continuous movement, continuous workload for your pump. I've had more problems running pumps off and on then just keeping them going (that is, non submersibles; I know sump pumps can be submerged but that's not really their function and they are exposed more often than not.)

    This would give you three others; one for your bottom drain, one for your jets, and the last for ? (not sure), unless you have some sort of basin to collect the water you intend for your wfall sump pump? How high exactly are you pushing water to the top of your wfall? I'd just get a strong enough pump with enough head pressure to do the job. This allows you to keep the wfalls system completely separate, which might come in handy during trouble checking, etc.

    In my case, I have my one sub pump teed, with one line going to my wfalls (4' head, 30' run) and the other to my mech filter. My pump is rated at 13 psi, and I have approx 5-6 psi at the falls. I included valves to allow myself to control how much water goes where and would advise you do the same if you work in any tees. Sometimes, it's nice to have a quieter wfall, you know?

    Actually, if you have the sub pump for your pond on one end and the wfall on the other, you could eliminate the one for the jets as you'll already have a nice circular flow.

    Just spitballin', is all...


    Michael
     
    brokensword, Mar 9, 2018
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  7. Telion

    Telion

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    Thank you. I will welcome suggestions and feedback anytime. It will give me advice to refer to as I go the rounds with this project.

    I had a smaller scale setup where I ran three subs from a skimmer based at the opposite side of the pond to create the amount of flow i desired (true, this was not in tandem) and they were plumbed to run the water back alongside the pond in 2" pipe then up the back side of the waterfall. My concern (or unknown) with running one pump for the falls is that I wont get the desired water flow I am looking for. The sump pumps are rated higher in terms of flow vs head so they may do a better job. The other, hahaha this is where I open my own can of worms around pump effeciency and cost effectiveness between a waterfall pump and a sub or or a sump pump, is cost having the waterfall on 24/7 might be a bit costly I hear of others seeing a 300.00 increase in their electricity to do that and I would much rather use it while I am out there and save the expense while I am not.

    I think what I can do is have the sumps setup to run all the way to the top and just use them while I am out there and wanting the full effect of the waterfall. And run a sub to say 1/3 of the way up on a more always on basis so it can provide circulation and aeration effeciently
     
    Telion, Mar 9, 2018
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  8. Telion

    bagsmom

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    I will give a testimonial for the Helix skimmer. Well worth the price. Very efficient and I love that my fish can cruise around inside and come out safely. I wish I was your neighbor so I could come watch -- and help! I'm loving my 1 year old pond but honestly missing the creativity and work of building it! Have fun!!!!!
     
    bagsmom, Mar 9, 2018
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  9. Telion

    Telion

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    I wish you were my neighbor too I would be all for some help :), yes its a ton of fun and we have done a decent job of keeping the cost down which has been key since we have a project going on in every part of the house at the same time. I guess I will need to finish it soon so I can relax next to it and recapture some of my sanity.I was able to knock out one of the largest expenses today the pond liner. 30'x30' of 45mil EPDM for 635.00 shipped with a 20% coupon on ebay. Things should really pick up speed once that arrives. We already have the liner for the waterfall but felt it would be best to do it all together at the same time and the weather is just now reaching a point where its not too cold or snowing.
     
    Telion, Mar 10, 2018
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  10. Telion

    Telion

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    Well yesterday was an interesting one. I decided to open up one of the sump pumps and on the improper was a small speck of oil. Likely it was because the wanted to be sure it wad well oiled but that little drop made me think. I started to do more research more open minded. And one person on some google thread about waterfall pumps vs sump pumps said something like "when the seal fails you are going to have oil all over the top of your pond, and it will fail." This stuck with me all night.

    Then I started reading about post draws of sump pumps vs waterfall pumps and the difference of ranking a 10amp pump vs a 2-3 amp waterfall pump. Every light in my house is l.e.d for a reason I am all about getting the most for less. One guy in one thread who was sold on the sump pump explained how the cost was only 7.00 per mo. vs 38.00 or something. And then I knew what I had to do. There was no way I am going to be ablebto be satisfied about my goals of having a low maintenance low cost pond with a few power sucking oil bombs in the chain. So I will be taking them back today and I lucked out (I hope) and picked up an Anjon 12500 for about the same price that will out perform them all combined. The I hope is because I am still taking a risk it is refurbished and does not have a warranty. But the good side is if it does stop it wont oil my pond.

    Another other notes worth mentioning is dumps are not epoxy sealed and may driven and true waterfall pumps are. There are a few company's out there that will sell you a utility pump as a pond pump. But you run that same risk and it really isbnot designed to run continuous if it is designed like a sump pump things to look for. Higher amperage, oil cooled. Doesn't state that it is asynchronous (spelling on thebll ast one lol).

    Thank you all for putting enough doubt in my mind to dig.
     
    Telion, Mar 10, 2018
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  11. Telion

    Lisak1

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    I've seen so many warnings on this site about trying to use a sump pump as a pond pump. They are not designed to run 24/7 for years on end. Most people are too stubborn to listen - good for you for not being one of them! There's a reason things are priced the way they are. Trying to find a less expensive alternative is never a bad idea; using a product that's not engineered for your purpose is never a good one!
     
    Lisak1, Mar 10, 2018
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  12. Telion

    Telion

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    Well said and thank you.
     
    Telion, Mar 10, 2018
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  13. Telion

    Gemma

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    What a beautiful place you live in! Love the mountains in the distance :)
     
    Gemma, Mar 10, 2018
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  14. Telion

    Telion

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    Thank you. We went chip and Joanna Gains style find the worst house in the nicest area you can afford. Its quite a spectacular view. Though a bit hazy lately.
     
    Telion, Mar 10, 2018
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  15. Telion

    Telion

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    Picked this up for a crazy deal $2.75 and they are normally 48.00 because of the quality and reusability I thought it would make a great piece for my diy filter. Then I soon realized that it is the same size as the house heater and that there wad only one :( its going in the house now. As a consilation win i also found this 2" H pipe for thr bog for 2.00 pree glued and ready to go. 20180310_222425.jpg 20180310_222507.jpg 20180310_222425.jpg
     

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    Telion, Mar 11, 2018
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  16. Telion

    Spartamets

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    Be sure to take measures to protect against run-off, which looks like a potentially severe possibility in your case. That will be a great looking pond and waterfall when it's done.
     
    Spartamets, Mar 12, 2018
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  17. Telion

    Telion

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    From a liner stand point the liner will fold up behind the rock and be covered. As far as over fill though in terms of a super heavy rain thats a great idea I should create a top drain that runs off into say the garden. Any other ideas. Manual filling will be done through the sprinkler system via a dedicated line so no issues there.
     
    Telion, Mar 12, 2018
    #37
  18. Telion

    Spartamets

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    I would make sure that the barrier between your pond and that hill is really high. I could easily envision water cascading down and splashing over most ordinary barriers--and carrying things into your pond that you probably don't want there. I've not seen that kind of high, steep hill rising almost directly off a pond before, so I can't say how exactly to handle it, but I'd observe how the water flows the next time it rains--especially a heavy rain. On the flipside, your waterfall will probably be pretty amazing on those days.

    I also think you're going to need a very, very powerful pump to move the water up to the top at anything like the rate you hope. That's a serious incline. It's going to look fabulous when it's done, and it's a great spot, but mountains tend to offer unique challenges to almost every kind of situation, not just ponds.
     
    Spartamets, Mar 13, 2018
    #38
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  19. Telion

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    My pond is built at the bottom of a steep hill. Around a 25 degree slope. 40 plus feet of nothing but heading down hill. I have the stream running down the slope. Switch back stream,around 85 feet long, with ponds built in.
    What I did was, during the build, I went out and watched the water flow every time it rained. I sloped the land so it would direct the run off to flow to either side of the pond.
    Also put in a french type drain in a few spots I could not get the perfect slope.

    The best stoppage of the run off was using dirt berms, not much bigger than 2-3 inches on up slope edge of the pond, up slope edge of the stream, that bit of dirt directed water to flow where I wanted it to and not into the pond or stream.
     
    addy1, Mar 13, 2018
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  20. Telion

    Telion

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    Thank you for bringing a perspective that hadn't received a great amount of thought creating drain runoffs as a result of the amount of water that could down the falls via something besides the pump(s). This is definately something to give a different perspective of thought to when considering overflow and drainage. I know I plan to tie an overflow line to the garden.I can deterred the other side of the run off to the bog. Leaving me just with what actually comes down the fall itself that's the one to watch if designed right.

    Not sure if you had a chance to read my previous post but I returned the 3 5200 gph sump pumps and purchased the Anjon 12500 (not the 1250)from what I have read it should be up to the task with some pretty impressive specs. If anyone has first hand experience and better yet a video of this bad boy in action I would be excited to see it. I still have the other 3 or 4 (can't remember) submersibles for various possibilities such as bottom drain suction, pulling water into the skimmer and creating some circulation.
     
    Telion, Mar 14, 2018
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