Fish tank filter leaking water :(

Discussion in 'Garden Pond Talk' started by Nepen, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. Nepen

    Nepen

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  2. Nepen

    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    With high light on low light plants, lets use... Anubias for example here...
    Will usually or accosinally melt the leaves, or kill it by burning it (basically), the plant cannot absorb that amount of nutrients (caused by the light, its all a chain reaction) that the light is "telling" it to absorb. Therefor it gets stressed "or overwhelmed" and dies off (that is a simple way to put it)
    Here are some links that I Highly suggest you read for this specific question, you WILL understand it pretty much after reading these.

    http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/balance-randall.html

    http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...078889-effect-co2-plant-growth-low-light.html (ill just copy paste this one here for others to see)

    Effect of CO2 on Plant Growth at Low Light
    Years ago Ole Pedersen, et.al, wrote a scientific paper about Liebigs Law of minimums, related to light and CO2. Later the paper was simplified and was available on Tropica's website, as http://www.bio-web.dk/ole_pedersen/p..._2001_2_22.pdf In that article was a table of data showing the effect of light and CO2 on Riccia growth rates. That table was:
    [​IMG]

    After studying that data for awhile I decided to plot it on a graph in a different way to see what I could learn. That gave me this:
    [​IMG]

    This shows me that, for Riccia, it takes very little CO2 to get the full benefit of CO2 at light intensities up to at least 90 PAR, very high light. One reason for this is that Riccia is a low light, slow growing plant. It is reasonable to assume that other low light, slow growing plants would have given similar results.

    Even high light plants, or fast growing plants probably give similar results, but with somewhat more CO2 needed to get the maximum growth rate. I grow Hygro corymbosa siamensis in my 30-35 PAR tank, and I see a similar result as that shown for Riccia.

    I started growing the Hygro with no CO2, just Metricide as a carbon source. For over a month the Hygro struggled to grow, getting only a little bigger in a month. So, I added DIY CO2 at around 1 bubble per second. The Hygro immediately started growing much faster, so much so that I have been pruning about 4-6 inches off each plant every week.

    To check how much I had affected the amount of CO2 in the water I put 0.5 dKH water in a drop checker and used it to monitor the CO2. With that low KH water, the range of measurement for CO2 is about 1 ppm to about 15 ppm. The first thing I noticed is that, with no CO2 on, the amount of dissolved CO2 rises back to around 3 ppm by the time I turn the lights back on, then drops down to around 1 ppm by the time the lights go off. That means the plants were using up the CO2 early in the photoperiod, something Diana Walstad also discovered in her research. (Her solution was a long rest period between lights on intervals, so the substrate could generate enough CO2 to restore the 3 ppm.)

    With the CO2 on all day, the amount of dissolved CO2 goes to around 6-8 ppm. So, my improved growth of Hygro is caused by adding less than 10 ppm to the water. The other plants in the tank also are growing and looking much healthier with the CO2 on.

    This was found to be the case years ago when DiY CO2 was first used. But, people continued to want more and more, so they increased their light intensity substantially, along with the CO2, and found that if they had 30 ppm the plants would grow much better at high light, and the fish would not be killed by the CO2. We then seemed to forget about the original benefits of CO2 on low light tanks.

    I'm posting this to suggest that we stop telling folks that they need pressurized CO2 if they want to see any benefit in large tanks. It just isn't true. If we stick with low light, probably up to at least 40 PAR, we can gain big benefits for almost trivial additions of CO2, as long as we also dose Metricide or Excel, to stop the fluctuations in CO2 from triggering BBA attacks. This will greatly improve our success rate with our low tech tanks, and increase our enjoyment of the hobby.

    ****
    In the comments you will see disagreement with Hoppys charts, etc, he is correct. No this is not just an opinion of mine, he is scientifically correct.




    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Python water changes is a company (Python) that makes, Water changing materials, but it is also a "technique of water changes"

    Which you can see in the diagram above. Most are DIY's like this that @SingAlongWithTSing made on BarrReport:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    (this is part of his 125 gallon high tech tank btw, its 1/4 of his tank in the image.)

    Im actually trying to make one myself, so ill make sure to take many detailed pics for you if you would like me to.
     
    DutchMuch, Aug 7, 2017
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  3. Nepen

    Nepen

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    wow, thank you. Yes that make sense. I didnt know what I have before so I bought plants that I 'like' not according to my set up.
    Now here's what I have - mind you, I dont landscape it much... dont have eye or energy to change it too lol. But I might do it if I get a hang of this thing and may be after I build a new stand.


    The tank - I had goldfish so I didn't want rocks or woods to be able to injured them. And I needed a lot of space for them :)
    IMG_9436.JPG

    I love that water garlic thingy...
    IMG_9433.JPG
    IMG_9434.JPG
    IMG_9435.JPG

    I guess since I dont have heater, my water is about 70 F. Some of the plants might need warmer water to thrive? should I get a heater? I had one but it broke so I didn't replace it.

    What plant would you recommend? I like reddish / multi colors and interesting texture.
     
    Nepen, Aug 8, 2017
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  4. Nepen

    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    Yea heater and GLASS thermometer I recommend as a must for every tank, some plants have very specific temp needs and parameter needs.
    Before I suggest More plants, may I say your aquascape for a first timer (???) looks tremendous!
    I made this little sketch for you, on how you can improve it if you would like, constructive criticism!
    [​IMG]
    Crypts look like/similar to this:

    upload_2017-8-8_9-42-1.jpeg

    This can help you ID your crypts, I cant see most of them closely in the pic.

    Ok so to my idea before you buy more plants, Yes this will get your arms wet, requires focus, and spare time! So when you have all those three key components, you are ready nepenson! you will be the next ninjitsu masta you will!
    got carried away with master yoda ninja jokes. hm.

    Ok so I tried to draw little keys on top there for you, pink is lilys, red is crypts, dark red is the big melon sword


    Melon sword:
    [​IMG]

    Prob. not what it is, but I haven't truly ID'd your plants yet, need closer images if possible to do this. (thanks in advance if you do!)

    I was thinking, move all the crypts foreground to background in that area that I drew, this will fill in the cap under the log and create a sense of depth. Color contrasts also because I think you have some green crypts in there, idk I cant see em'
    For your "garlic plant" (I know what it is, but its on the tip of my tongue so garlic plant it is for now) WAIT ITS A LACE PLANT Yessssss I remembered!
    lol
    Ok so your garlic plant I was thinking move in the back corner, They get HUGE eventually and there leaves will with ease and current stretch across your tanks length.

    Your Lily's (or like lilys) you could move in front of the lace plant, to give a large submersed feeling, I know this sounds weird because its an aquarium, but you will understand if you do it. Lol hard to describe things sometimes ya know' ? Then from there, if you could take an FTS (full tank shot) and pics of your plants individually it would help Tremendously.

    @Nepen sorry if this is a rush to you!

    Wait wait wait, we have a HUGE problem.
    In your second pic:
    [​IMG]
    The fish in this image is an CAE (not a SAE!!!!!!!!) this is a CHINESE ALGAE EATER,
    they are PURELY carnivorous once they reach a certain age (about 3" long) and will kill ALL of your tanks inhabitants, it also gets up to 1 ft long. If you have a receipt, use it if you can!

    For future reference because I think you got this fish either because it was labeled "SAE" (Siamese algae eater) or because it looked like a suckerfish, always do background research if you haven't, It pays off in the long or short run like you have never seen something "pay off" before. Plus youll save money and it never hurts to know, ya know? the rhymes...
    But yea definetly return him if possible, OR better yet, trade him in for Otoinculas (true PURE ALGAE EATERS) catfish, also known as Oto's. They do best in schools of 4 plus (your tank size easily supplies) and will devour any algae in the tank.
     
    DutchMuch, Aug 8, 2017
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  5. Nepen

    Nepen

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    let me go to ebay... i think i can see what i bought!!

    here we go..
    Cryptocoryne undulata
    Echinodorus Vesuvius (love these, not growing well or it's been eaten tooo fast...)
    JAVA FERN TRIDENT
    Microsorium windelov Java Lace Fern
    Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia
    Bolbitis heudelotii African Fern(not diying but not growing either)
    Crinum calamistratum (that garlic plant, do you call it lace plant?)
    Micro Sword lilaeopsis novaezelandiae
    Echinodorus Red Flame (the one you mistook as melon sword.. may be it is called melon sword but I dont know :)
    Echinodorus Horemanii ‘Red’
    Nymphoides aquatica
    Cryptocoryne wendtii var. Bronze (I think it died... may be not.)
    Cryptocoryne lutea

    Tried.. not successful - either got eaten or just died.
    Echinodorus Red Wild Grass ( tried this one, dead too)
    I love Echinodorus Aflame but it never survive...
    Bucephalandra sp. Wavy Leaf - also died...
    Fissidens nobilis (died...)
    Bolbitis sp. 'Baby Leaf
    Christmas Moss
    Alternanthera cardinalis "Telanthera" Roseafolia
    Downoi Pogostemon helferi
    Rotala Wallichii
    Echinodorus 'Kleiner Prinze'
    Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo'
    Dwarf Hairgrass Eleocharis Parvula
    Radican Marble Queen Sword
    Ludwigia Ovalis



    Yes that gold one is Chinese algae eater. I have 2. 1 is bigger and 1 is smaller. I had those before, bigger ones, they tend to leave my fish (even my goldfish) alone so until they pose a problem I'll keep them for now :) Thank you for the warning! I got 4 Siamese algae eater too. 3 tetras and 4 other small tropical fish. I'm thinking about getting shrimp... I used to have crayfish but they destroy my plants...

    I see what you are trying to do.. one part jungle and one part smaller plants? Where would I put the Co2 and fan? Do I have to move them to the other side? Right now my CO2 is where you want me to put the garlic plant and the fan on top to blow Co2 to the other side :) I got rid of my filter lol.

    Ok I'll need a heater...hur... I was hoping not to have to spend money on this.

    If you look through my list you can see I like 'red' or marble stuff :)
     
    Nepen, Aug 8, 2017
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  6. Nepen

    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    These are all the high tech plants. The other plants you listed are medium to low tech.
    ill reply in further detail later, I got to go move railroad ties :p
     
    DutchMuch, Aug 8, 2017
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  7. Nepen

    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    Ok im back, didn't take long!
    I go by the golden rule usually, and usually take steps made by aquascaping rules.
    @Nepen I highly suggest from further on since we are "into" it now with your aquarium, that you take this to the https://barrreport.com/ forum. Im over there as well and can still help you, but others (scientists, more qualified Professionals, and Proffesional aquascapers such as Jason and Pikez, Fablau) can further assist you chemically, technically, and just in general with what your doing. Plus you can make a journal over there, and it would be SUPER cool to see you document this tank, others would love it as well. For example, this is my brand new journal I made last night with my Spec V, https://barrreport.com/threads/layers-fluval-spec-v-high-tech-aquascape.14469/ would love to hear your opinion on it over there to!
     
    DutchMuch, Aug 8, 2017
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  8. Nepen

    Nepen

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    Thanks! I'm always too nervous to go to the pro site since I dont speak the language and I always like to do thing that some expert might say dont do (like keep tropical with goldfish!). I'll give it a look. I like reading more than posting though ;) I think i'll read and see if I can come to some understanding first before start asking (then I know what exactly to ask).

    I like your tank. It gave a beachy feel.

    I just upgraded my tank light and CO2 like a year ago. So the ones that died, died probably because I had low light before. Some of those flourish for a while then I got crayfish and voila, got eaten to snub...o_O

    I'll see if I can move the taller plants to one side of the tank then slope down. I have lots of small little new plants!!
     
    Nepen, Aug 8, 2017
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  9. Nepen

    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    Fablau and Nicpapa are not fluent English either. Nicpapa I think is in asia or something...
    @Nepen Join when you want to though, many people are newbs there, and everyone is basically a big family practically. its pretty cool how it works, but sounds good! If you do join, MAKE A JOURNAL!!!!!
     
    DutchMuch, Aug 8, 2017
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