found dying fish with black on scales..pic included

[Dave 54]

This is where I am getting confused.
Based on the first above quote pH has been higher than 8.5, but has evidently lowered.
Based on the second quote Ph would not lower but would remain at the higher level.
These two (2) statements are contradictory, hence one of them can not be true.
This is the source of my confusion.

The KH will only be effective against acids lowering the PH.
If the pond is low in calcium, the PH can still slowly creep up, but I don't think that this pond's PH level is so high that it needs any intervention.
The accuracy of the guage gardenlady is using is +/- 0.1 PH.
I suspect that gardenlady has a fairly clean pond (not a lot of decomposing organic matter) with a fair amount of filtration and aeration.
I wouldn't say stabilize, but I would say prevent from being lowered. Splitting hairs, maybe.

I think we sould take the higher reading here Meyer the readings are bourne out by the ph meter if it is correctly caibrated which gardenlady says she did before testing as Mitch says it has an accuracy of +/-0,1 ph , thats then two readings of Ph 8.5 and not the lower Ph reading of Ph 7.6 as it then makes sense .

Dave

 

[MitchM]

I don't remember seeing a time of day that the PH reading was taken, so I'm discounting that PH number for now.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I think we sould take the higher reading here Meyer

The higher reading of what?
8.5 is the only numeric reading of pH reported.
Are you referring to the higher level of KH reported. Two were reported: a dH of 17 and a dH 0f 19.

Lets verify the definition of water hardness. According to the USGS, water hardness is: The amount of dissolved calcium and magnesium in the water. Since both of these elements appear as ions in solution, the chart that I added in post #40 is valid for determining the general proportions of Calcium and Magnesium in water at various levels of Hardness and the resulting levels of each of these elements in water if the KH is known. In the case of gardenlady's pond, we can't confuse any of the readings with GH as she has not reported any measured readings of GH. So we are dealing strictly with Alkalinity.
Based on scientific data available and also on MitchM's post, the pH in gardenlady's pond should be stable with the posted KH readings of >300 ppm. Yet, it was reported that the pH has been observed at over 8.5. Again, with the reported KH readings, this higher unknown level should have remained and not dropped to the current 8.5. This is where the confusion originates
Either the pH is stable or it is not, in the former case the pH readings are questionable, in the latter case it is the KH readings that need closer examination.

 

[Dave 54]

What I cannot get my head around Meyer is the two Ph values seen in the second of the two photos @gardenlady posted for us to look at testerday .
Its an API pond master test kit that many of us use in the first test tube you see a Ph value of Ph7.6 then next to it a Ph Value of Ph 8.5 taken I believe at the same time .
That shouldnt happen the Ph value is that of Ph7.6 then the high range reading of Ph 8.5 it has to be one or the other but which , do we go with Ph7.6 or Ph8.5
The Ph 8.5 is bourne out by her digital Ph meter thats if it was calibrated correcly .
@gardenlady do you know if you live in a hard water area or soft water area please ?

Dave

 

[MitchM]

What I cannot get my head around Meyer is the two Ph values seen in the second of the two photos @gardenlady posted for us to look at testerday .
Its an API pond master test kit that many of us use in the first test tube you see a Ph value of Ph7.6 then next to it a Ph Value of Ph 8.5 taken I believe at the same time .
That shouldnt happen the Ph value is that of Ph7.6 then the high range reading of Ph 8.5 it has to be one or the other but which , do we go with Ph7.6 or Ph8.5
The Ph 8.5 is bourne out by her digital Ph meter thats if it was calibrated correcly .
@gardenlady do you know if you live in a hard water area or soft water area please ?

Dave

The first PH test in that picture will only go to a maximum of 7.6, so that first test is meaningless.

.

 

[Dave 54]

Not my point Mitch both say they are correct, so how can this be so the Ph test on most API pond master test kits are a wide range ph Test with the Nitrate test kit exchanged for Phosphate readings you have to buy the Nitrate kits seperate .
@gardenlady what kits do you have in your API pondMaster kit ?
Infact nowdays you only get the one colour chart there is no high range kit
We have two Ammonia regent bottles one and two, two Phosphate kits regent bottle one and two , one Nitrite kit regent bottle one plus our Nitrate kit bought seperately .
I dont know if you recall me saying about the change to API test kits over a year ago .
So either the US is behind the times or she has been sold a very old test kit which may explain why she is getting no Nitrate which as Meyer already stated is impossible in a pond infact it could cast a doubt on all he tests .
Which API test kits do you get in your own perhaps even the Canadians are behind the times as well but this change has been in a long time now our own pond is steady at Ph 7.6

Dave

 

[MitchM]

Oh, I see, you think that the 2 tests are from 2 separate wide range PH test kits.
I think the tests are from separate low range and high range kits.
I don't know what the status of the API test kit inventories are. I rarely buy test kits, and when I do I buy individual ones.

Gardenlady's pond may be an example where water changes are helpful.
If she keeps a clean pond and has to top up frequently, I can see where the KH number can continue to increase and replacing pond water could help reduce the KH number. It depends on what the source water numbers turn out to be.
The addition of more plants would probably help as well.
I think the API test kit maxes out at 22 drops, so her pond is getting to the upper limit for healthy pond water conditions.

 

[Dave 54]

Oh, I see, you think that the 2 tests are from 2 separate wide range PH test kits.
I think the tests are from separate low range and high range kits.
I don't know what the status of the API test kit inventories are. I rarely buy test kits, and when I do I buy individual ones.

Gardenlady's pond may be an example where water changes are helpful.
If she keeps a clean pond and has to top up frequently, I can see where the KH number can continue to increase and replacing pond water could help reduce the KH number. It depends on what the source water numbers turn out to be.
The addition of more plants would probably help as well.
I think the API test kit maxes out at 22 drops, so her pond is getting to the upper limit for healthy pond water conditions.

I have soft water here in plymouth I bolster my KH with Lythaqua a calicified sea weed , Mitch we dont even know what her own water is be it hard or soft water in her area or if she needs to bolster her Kh or not .
We are all making asumtions at the moment untl we find out which ?

Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I see the confusion spreading!

 

[Dave 54]

Oh, I see, you think that the 2 tests are from 2 separate wide range PH test kits.
I think the tests are from separate low range and high range kits.
I don't know what the status of the API test kit inventories are. I rarely buy test kits, and when I do I buy individual ones.

Gardenlady's pond may be an example where water changes are helpful.
If she keeps a clean pond and has to top up frequently, I can see where the KH number can continue to increase and replacing pond water could help reduce the KH number. It depends on what the source water numbers turn out to be.
The addition of more plants would probably help as well.
I think the API test kit maxes out at 22 drops, so her pond is getting to the upper limit for healthy pond water conditions.

If they where two seperates then why is the Test card one whole card those two Ph kits are from the same Pond master kit not seperates You normally with seperates whould get seperate indivinual Test Card's, in fact the Pond Master kit bought last year had seperate cards and was heat wrapped until I cut it open Mitch this gets even stranger by the minute my friend

Dave

 

[Dave 54]

I think I got to the bottom of the two Ph kits :-

http://www.apifishcare.com/help-detail.php?id=19

Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I think I got to the bottom of the two Ph kits :-

http://www.apifishcare.com/help-detail.php?id=19

Dave

Doesn't really explain the necessity of two (2) test kits. Liquid pH test kits are available that measure pH levels of 4 to 10 with just one test. Guess API is just trying to sell more product.

 

[Dave 54]

Doesn't really explain the necessity of two (2) test kits. Liquid pH test kits are available that measure pH levels of 4 to 10 with just one test. Guess API is just trying to sell more product.

What I cant understand Meyer is the differences between my Pond master that has phosphate and no Nitrate [bought seperately] and gardenladys test kit , surely they should all be the same ?

Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

What I cant understand Meyer is the differences between my Pond master that has phosphate and no Nitrate [bought seperately] and gardenladys test kit , surely they should all be the same ?

Dave

Apparently they have two (2) different kits....the ''Freshwater Master Test Kit' and the 'Pond Master Test Kit'.

 

[Dave 54]

Apparently they have two (2) different kits....the ''Freshwater Master Test Kit' and the 'Pond Master Test Kit'.

Mine said pond master on the card that came with it so I am now even more confused , did you go on the API UK website ?

Dave