Green Pond

[davepratt]

Ive had fish for so long i can tell just by the way a fish acts if the water quality is bad

 

[Waterbug]

He stated that he has been using a UV but it isn't working. You come in and say a UV should be 100% effective. Obviously, it is not. So now what?

Perhaps if you read the rest of the post?

The UV is 100% effective. Green water means there is a problem with the UV. Couldn't be undersized obviously. Has the bulb been replaced within the last 6 months of use? If no then I'd do that first. If yes I would check the flow thru the unit to make sure that was in spec. If flow is toward the high end I would reduce the flow and wait 5-7 days to see if the water cleared.

What's your deal? I get you apparently don't like my post, but why do you feel the need to pretend I didn't explain how to fix the UV? To make your judgement seem righteous?

I'm saying that I believe there is so much "food" in the water for the algae that even if the sterilizer is doing its job, the algae is outpacing it.

Good for you. It's nice you believe this. I saw no reason to judge your post, but since that seems to be the game then I'll play too...The concept that a UV filter can't keep up with algae growth is ridiculous, absolutely and completely ridiculous. Keeping up with algae growth is exactly what these devices are designed to do. If they couldn't keep up with algae growth there would be no reason to ever use one and they would be like the dozens of scam products. If these fish were pooping out pure Miracle Gro AND 10,000 watts of grow lights were added so the pond had 24/7 light a properly sized, installed and maintained UV would have no problem killing algae as fast as it could grow. Algae cells can't suddenly start dividing every 30 minutes just because they have nutrients and light any more than you can grow a human baby to adulthood in 5 years because they were fed super food, got lots of rest and exercise, whatever. It's a ridiculous concept.

Why you "believe" this I have no idea. But I support your right to post whatever nonsense you feel you need to push onto people just like everyone else here. That's what forums are for. It's why we have forums. Look around. You see any botanists posting? Any biologists? Veterinarians? Professionally trained pond builders? Anyone with any kind of actual relevant education? Of course not. They don't post in hobby forums. Hobby forums are for people to post stuff they "believe".

That floating fountain doesn't have a real filter, as far as I know.

What we don't know about this pond could fill volumes. I suggested to the OP that giving detailed info would probably get better answers. OP doesn't want to give more info which is their right. So OP gets crappy answers, as they apparently want. It's a forum, that's the way forums work. If a person actually wanted good answers they would just do a little research since all this stuff is covered on many sites, by many people, for many years. These aren't exactly mysterious secrets that only we can provide answers.

10 fish worth of poop and all the dead algae remaining in the pond is plenty of food to keel the algae going strong. That is why I believe the water stays green.

You will notice my answer did not involve saving the fish, but rather, why the water is green.

Should be fine is a garbage answer.

And I think yours is a garbage answer. So now the OP has a bunch of garbage answers to pick from...just like every thread.

We done judging each others' posts?

 

[dieselplower]

Perhaps if you read the rest of the post?


What's your deal? I get you apparently don't like my post, but why do you feel the need to pretend I didn't explain how to fix the UV? To make your judgement seem righteous?

Good for you. It's nice you believe this. I saw no reason to judge your post, but since that seems to be the game then I'll play too...The concept that a UV filter can't keep up with algae growth is ridiculous, absolutely and completely ridiculous. Keeping up with algae growth is exactly what these devices are designed to do. If they couldn't keep up with algae growth there would be no reason to ever use one and they would be like the dozens of scam products. If these fish were pooping out pure Miracle Gro AND 10,000 watts of grow lights were added so the pond had 24/7 light a properly sized, installed and maintained UV would have no problem killing algae as fast as it could grow. Algae cells can't suddenly start dividing every 30 minutes just because they have nutrients and light any more than you can grow a human baby to adulthood in 5 years because they were fed super food, got lots of rest and exercise, whatever. It's a ridiculous concept.

Why you "believe" this I have no idea. But I support your right to post whatever nonsense you feel you need to push onto people just like everyone else here. That's what forums are for. It's why we have forums.

What we don't know about this pond could fill volumes. I suggested to the OP that giving detailed info would probably get better answers. OP doesn't want to give more info which is their right. So OP gets crappy answers, as they apparently want. It's a forum, that's the way forums work. If a person actually wanted good answers they would just do a little research search since all this stuff is covered on many sites, by many people, for many years. These aren't exactly mysterious secrets that only we can provide.

And I think yours is a garbage answer. So now the OP has a bunch of garbage answers to pick from...just like every thread.

We done judging each others' posts?

OK now you are saying a "properly sized" UV is 100% effective. Do you really think the UV in one of those fountain pumps is properly sized? I dont. I also doubt that the pump in the floating fountain has much power, and doubt all of the water is being turned over regularly. The green water has to be actually pulled through the UV for it to work. The fountain is returning the water right back to the intake area of the pump, cycling the same water over and over. Sure, a little bit is being pulled in from a small perimeter, but not much. You may well be correct that the bulb is burnt out but im really surprised at how much useless info is in this thread. Seems to be a theme around here lately.

 

[Waterbug]

We done judging each others' posts?

So apparently no. OK then.

OK now you are saying a "properly sized" UV is 100% effective.

If by "now" you mean back originally...

The UV is 100% effective. Green water means there is a problem with the UV. Couldn't be undersized obviously.

This is a 125 gal pond...no one makes a UV that could be undersized for this pond. The UV is properly sized...there was no reason to tell the OP the unit must be properly sized. When I did say "properly sized" it was in the context of responding to your craziness.

Do you really think the UV in one of those fountain pumps is properly sized?

Obivously yes.

I dont.

Super. Did this come to you in a vision or do you have some kind of info you'd care to give to back up your belief? I mean I'm not asking you to. Not sure if you're trying to have religious type debate or factual.

I also doubt that the pump in the floating fountain has much power, and doubt all of the water is being turned over regularly. The green water has to be actually pulled through the UV for it to work. The fountain is returning the water right back to the intake area of the pump, cycling the same water over and over. Sure, a little bit is being pulled in from a small perimeter, but not much. You may well be correct that the bulb is burnt out but im really surprised at how much useless info is in this thread. Seems to be a theme around here lately.

It's great you assume all that stuff. I don't know why you feel the need to make assumptions...OP doesn't want to provide much info so I try to limit my comments to what the poster wants to provides.

Based on my experience, the smallest pump/UV combo with floating fountain and LED llights is TotalPond's "Pond Boss". 4.5 watt UV, 238 GPH pump and is said to be "rated" for a 750 gal pond for what that's worth. If this happen to be the actual unit OP has then this pond would be turned over almost every 30 minutes. I don't know every single product ever made, but I'd be surprised if some manufacturer has a 1 watt UV 50 GPH pump for a 100 gal pond out there. Seems like a silly market to go after. These types of products are designed for newbies who really don't like to get into any kind of details.

The Pond Boss does have sponge filter pads. If the OP had wanted to share any info at all on what equipment they have, and if it turned out to be a Pond Boss, I would have suggested the pads be checked. Common for them to clog and stop the water flow to the UV. But the OP didn't want to get into that much detail...so I didn't assume. Sounded like OP just wanted to vent. It's a forum. Plus, for all I know the OP was actually a bot post. It's pretty hard to tell, but these kinds of very short posts by a newly registered user would fit the bot profile.

 

[dieselplower]

Alright so we have established over several threads that waterbug would rather split hairs and be unhelpful than post useful info. We got it now man, thanks. This place has gone down hill lately.

 

[Waterbug]

I agree it has gone down hill lately. You're wanting to come here and judge other people's posts, call them "garbage". You want to play the troll and start a flame war and the moderators are OK with that. Well, it's their site, so that's up to them. You post what you "believe" but don't want to type a single word to support your "belief". You want everyone else to take your abuse AND believe whatever it is you believe only because you happen to believe it. Well you don't get both. You're free to post whatever opinion, belief, dream or whatever else you want here and no one will say boo. But if you think you also get to go around calling other people's posts "garbage", especially when your posts are meritless, and think you're not going to get some pro quid pro blow back I think you're in a fantasy world. Trying to push people around you're likely to get shoved a little yourself. If you don't want a shoving match don't start one.

Just because you think the "beliefs" you dreamed up are the perfect answer and mine are "garbage" doesn't actually make it true.

But I do agree. Things have gone from pretty bad to pretty sickening around here.

 

[davepratt]

Wow calm down boys ponds r relaxing

 

[capewind]

Okay guys, I really hate to get involved in this one but am going to throw MY OBSERVATION into the mix, and take it for what it is worth, just a fact of MY POND.

Total water volume of the main pond is now reduced to about 8000 gallons. Pond is heavily stocked with fish. In the ballpark of 100 fish. Maybe 20 are goldfish, the rest koi. Largest koi are in the 18-24" range, and the smallest start at 6" with a steady increase in size from small to large. I do not advise the number of fish we have by any means ... I feed these fish 3 cups of food per day ... 1.5 cups AM and PM ... and yes, it really is measured as I am a sucker for a cute face and would feed more otherwise ...

Some may recall we have an issue with a heron ... I didnt do any floating plants this year, so have been playing the on/off game with the UV ... The UV on this pond is only 18 watt, so most definately undersized, but hey, we had it on hand, and havent bought a bigger on for this pond yet ...

Put string up around the pond, and THINK it works, but the fish still cant hide ... so SHUT OFF the uv to LET my all day full sun pond go green ... It only takes a few days to start losing visibility with a green tinge to the water ... I can only see the fish clearly if they are in the top 12-18" of water. AS I start losing this visibility, I plug the UV back in for a couple of days, and it clears ... This may sound silly to some to keep turning the UV on and off, but winter is coming and want to be able to feed the fish ... when visibility is bad, they wont come up to eat ... Obviously a heron can only reach so far, but I dont need to advertise to the heron, and the new CRANE that arrived a few days ago, more than I have to. The better solution will be to net the pond, but that hasnt been an option yet.

So summary, decent size pond with high load and undersized UV ... turn on, it clears, turn off, it goes green, turn on, and it clears ... nothing else has been changed.

If the UV isnt working, something is very likely wrong ... old bulb? dirty sleeve? wrong flow? Is the water going to the UV filtered or raw water?

 

[dieselplower]

That is what I usually see as well, a few days to clear up.
So, why, if I have a 1600 gallon pond and a 1300 gph pump, does it not take less than an hour and a half? All the water should have gone through it in under 90 minutes, according to some people

 

[capewind]

I didnt read the entire conversation to see a comment like you mention, but in a nutshell, I would call it a dilution rate issue. I dont know the scientic terms here ... Meaning water gets pumped into the UV and assumed clean (if working at capacity), but added back to the "dirty" water of the pond volume ... Over time, the continuius dilution would eventually get to a point where there is nolonger an issue to the eye.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Thanks for the great post. Do you have any helpful thoughts on this?

Yes I do, but I prefer to keep my thoughts to myself lately so as to not offend anyone by disagreeing with them.
I'm not on any crusade to help people clear up their back yard puddles, and even if I was most people who join a forum for help with a pond problem like "green water", or "my fish died", seldom get, or take, any useful advice from these forums. What usually happens is what has happened in this thread, they see a bunch of conflicting opinions and squabbles between members, they quickly come to the realization that getting a simple solution to their problem is not gona happen, move on and never return. Not that the squabbling would make much difference anyway, by far the majority of one time posters never stick around or get involved in the forum anyway. Even if they do get a "useful" answer or advice to their specific question they aren't incline to implement it anyway. For instance, you suggested to the OP to reduce the number of fish in their pond. I'll bet you dollars to buttons they didn't want to hear that and have no intention of getting rid of any fish. Also, as Waterbug already mentioned, a UV light will kill green water algae 100% of the time, so if the UV light is working and set up properly the water should should be clearing up, that fact that it's not means it's either not set up properly or simply not working. Will the the OP follow up on that? Not likely!
So you see, it's all just pissing in the wind. 99% of the time anyway.

I don't come here to give out advice, although I might offer it once in a while if I'm in the mood, but I make no claim that my advice is better than anyone else's, that's up to the person taking (or not taking) the advice to decide. I don't even care if someone disagrees with my advice, in fact I welcome a well thought out and presented challenge to any ideas I have, it forces me to think a little harder and possibly investigate the mater a little deeper. Some people don't like it when others disagree with them though, and when you get two people like that in the same thread things usually deteriorate pretty fast.

But to reiterate, no, I have no helpful thoughts to offer on the original question, whatever it was????

 

[dieselplower]

Ehh you guys are right. I dont care anymore either.

 

[shakaho]

That is what I usually see as well, a few days to clear up.
So, why, if I have a 1600 gallon pond and a 1300 gph pump, does it not take less than an hour and a half? All the water should have gone through it in under 90 minutes, according to some people

Two reasons. The first Capewind already offered. The second concerns whether your pump actually turns over 1300 gph. (It doesn't.) Put a bucket of known volume under your filter outspout and use a stopwatch to see how long it takes to fill. From this you can easily calculate the actual gallons per hour.

 

[dieselplower]

Thanks for the comments. Believe it or not I actually didn't even mean to post that. I had typed out a longer post but decided not to post it. I navigated away from the page but about 1/3 of what I had typed posted anyway. My point was that although Waterbug noted that this persons pump was possibly rated at a few hundred gallons of water per hour, that does not mean that all of the water in the pond is being turned over. Some of the water was probably turned over 5 times, and some of it zero. But I do agree with both of those reasons, thanks.

 

[JohnHuff]

Boy, aren't we a pessimistic bunch this morning!
You guys may be right about the 1 time poster never coming back but writing for them makes my understanding better. So my posting is partly for them and partly for me. I've also seen some posters gain more knowledge and start to give advice.
I think it's still worthwhile to post, if only for the small percentage who come back. Because if none of us decline to help then even that small percentage would get nothing.
As far as a newbie getting conflicting information. That is still OK. I still remember when I started my indoor tanks. The conflicting information just tells me there isn't an easy answer, and I need to get more information than what I can get from a forum. Negative information is still information.
Going back to WB, in the past day he's posted some very good posts, and then there's the one in this thread. I think it's a better idea not to call him out on it and just post whatever you're going to post. I know I've been guilty of it in the past so in the future I'm going to post whatever I'm going to post and try and ignore any pithy remarks.

Yes I do, but I prefer to keep my thoughts to myself lately so as to not offend anyone by disagreeing with them.
I'm not on any crusade to help people clear up their back yard puddles, and even if I was most people who join a forum for help with a pond problem like "green water", or "my fish died", seldom get, or take, any useful advice from these forums. What usually happens is what has happened in this thread, they see a bunch of conflicting opinions and squabbles between members, they quickly come to the realization that getting a simple solution to their problem is not gona happen, move on and never return. Not that the squabbling would make much difference anyway, by far the majority of one time posters never stick around or get involved in the forum anyway. Even if they do get a "useful" answer or advice to their specific question they aren't incline to implement it anyway. For instance, you suggested to the OP to reduce the number of fish in their pond. I'll bet you dollars to buttons they didn't want to hear that and have no intention of getting rid of any fish. Also, as Waterbug already mentioned, a UV light will kill green water algae 100% of the time, so if the UV light is working and set up properly the water should should be clearing up, that fact that it's not means it's either not set up properly or simply not working. Will the the OP follow up on that? Not likely!
So you see, it's all just pissing in the wind. 99% of the time anyway.

I don't come here to give out advice, although I might offer it once in a while if I'm in the mood, but I make no claim that my advice is better than anyone else's, that's up to the person taking (or not taking) the advice to decide. I don't even care if someone disagrees with my advice, in fact I welcome a well thought out and presented challenge to any ideas I have, it forces me to think a little harder and possibly investigate the mater a little deeper. Some people don't like it when others disagree with them though, and when you get two people like that in the same thread things usually deteriorate pretty fast.

But to reiterate, no, I have no helpful thoughts to offer on the original question, whatever it was????