HELP! UNEXPLAINABLE WATER LOSS!

[Jules3PAL]

I have had to top off (or more than top off) the water level on my small backyard pond for several months. Recently took out liner, put in underlayment and new liner. Next day, water level still going down. I have sumbersible pump with U/V filter - no external water features

What is causing this?! It's not normal evaporation...

Getting panicked for winter.....

 

[tbendl]

Without any external hoses to worry about you must have a leak in your liner. Depending on if you have fish, can you let the water level drop until it stops to see if it's hopefully somewhere on the sides?

 

[sissy]

Could something be drinking out of your pond .When you got your new liner did you inspect it .Does this happen at night or also during the day

 

[Jules3PAL]

Could something be drinking out of your pond .When you got your new liner did you inspect it .Does this happen at night or also during the day

No i really don't think there is anything that would be drinking this much water! Before I replaced liner, I could lose about 1/3 of water in a day. It's just been a few days since new liner put in and so not sure how long it will take for it to lower that amount. It happens day and night. Although this doesn't make sense at all I feel like it could have something to do with the pump, which is new this year. There are no external parts, except electrical cords, so no where else water could be leaking from. So weird!!!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Got photos?
Does your pond have a fountain? How small is your pond?

 

[Jules3PAL]

I estimate it's a 250-300 gallon pond - not big. All i have is a self contained pump/with little fountain feature and UV light built in. No skimmer, nothing external.
One photo is the best i could find of my pump system online. The other photo is of my empty pond before we took out the old liner

 

[sissy]

Do you have a fountain head as wind can blow water out of the pond .I don't see one on your filter but needed asked just in case

 

[Dave 54]

what sort of pond liner are you using butyl or another type ?
Have you checked your fountain to see if thats where your loss is ?

Dave

 

[Marshall]

One possibility is you may have a sharp edge, root, rock etc somewhere that punctured the first liner and probably done the same to this one once the weight of the water was added.
PS: Underlayments are really not that durable so they would only stop the smallest debris and really just provide a soft even surface for the liner to lay on so that it does not rub the bear ground which can be abrasive.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

One possibility is you may have a sharp edge, root, rock etc somewhere that punctured the first liner and probably done the same to this one once the weight of the water was added.
PS: Underlayments are really not that durable so they would only stop the smallest debris and really just provide a soft even surface for the liner to lay on so that it does not rub the bear ground which can be abrasive.

Not meaning to get off subject, but what type of underlayment are you referring to? The standard underlayment is 6oz non-woven geotextile. This material is used in erosion control, general landscaping etc. and stands up under the most demanding conditions. It does not degrade therefore does not ever need replacing.

 

[Marshall]

Not meaning to get off subject, but what type of underlayment are you referring to? The standard underlayment is 6oz non-woven geotextile. This material is used in erosion control, general landscaping etc. and stands up under the most demanding conditions. It does not degrade therefore does not ever need replacing.

I was talking about the one that goes between the weed/root barrier and the liner itself. The product I am talking about is made of a soft wool like cloth designed to keep dirt etc from being abrasive on the liner. I am not 100% sure what the material you are talking about is as geo-textile can mean several things but personally the system I have used in all my turtle and koi ponds came in three pieces. The bottom layer which is a woven type barrier that keeps rocks, roots or other jagged edges from coming through followed by the soft inderlayment and then the liner itself.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I was talking about the one that goes between the weed/root barrier and the liner itself. The product I am talking about is made of a soft wool like cloth designed to keep dirt etc from being abrasive on the liner. I am not 100% sure what the material you are talking about is as geo-textile can mean several things but personally the system I have used in all my turtle and koi ponds came in three pieces. The bottom layer which is a woven type barrier that keeps rocks, roots or other jagged edges from coming through followed by the soft inderlayment and then the liner itself.

6 oz. geotextile provides not only an effective root barrier but also puncture protection from rocky soil and it allows the soil to breath. It is the standard underlayment in the Pond industry. I have never heard of a two-component underlayment as you describe. Must be a DIY concept.

 

[Marshall]

6 oz. geotextile provides not only an effective root barrier but also puncture protection from rocky soil and it allows the soil to breath. It is the standard underlayment in the Pond industry. I have never heard of a two-component underlayment as you describe. Must be a DIY concept.

Not really a DIY as far as the materials go but technically you can use just the underlayment same as with the material you are speaking of. I personally did not trust the specific product I am talking about to protect the liner on its own so in that sense it is a "DIY" or rather a customized install method. The underlayment I had is made of Polypropylene and although durable it would easily puncture and a root would go through with ease. Send me a link to the liner you are talking about because I would like to use that next time if it strong. The bottom layer in my ponds is a material called Terram while the underlayment is some sort of wool like cloth

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Not really a DIY as far as the materials go but technically you can use just the underlayment same as with the material you are speaking of. I personally did not trust the specific product I am talking about to protect the liner on its own so in that sense it is a "DIY" or rather a customized install method. The underlayment I had is made of Polypropylene and although durable it would easily puncture and a root would go through with ease. Send me a link to the liner you are talking about because I would like to use that next time if it strong. The bottom layer in my ponds is a material called Terram while the underlayment is some sort of wool like cloth

Terram is the name of the company the manufactured the product you are using. They manufacture a wide range of geosynthetics--woven, non-woven etc. What you are using could be one of many different products.
As to the availability of the 6oz, non-woven geotextile underlayment, it is available from most any Pond supplier.
In over 20 years, I have never witnessed or heard a verifiable report of this underlayment failing to do perform the main intended function, that is, to protect the pond liner.

 

[Marshall]

Terram is the name of the company the manufactured the product you are using. They manufacture a wide range of geosynthetics--woven, non-woven etc. What you are using could be one of many different products.
As to the availability of the 6oz, non-woven geotextile underlayment, it is available from most any Pond supplier.
In over 20 years, I have never witnessed or heard a verifiable report of this underlayment failing to do perform the main intended function, that is, to protect the pond liner.

I think we misunderstood each other because I did not say the Terram product was the weak one or that it fails. I am talking about the wool like stuff I found labeled as underlayment which was not that good of a product. Terram RootGuard is what is my bottom layer and it is nearly bulletproof but the other stuff made of polypropylene that is thin and wool like in texture and only provides a soft layer seemed to me to be inadequate of protecting the liner on its own because you can even make a tear in the stuff just by your bare hands.That's why I had to use three layers because the one the store called underlayment was crap and thats why I ended up buying Terram RootGuard.
PS: The company that made the product I did not like is named Beckett