Here we go...

[CountryEscape]

OK, now I'm going to vehemently disagree with Waterbug. Sorry, buddy. LOL
Do NOT cut your liner. You already said earlier you plan to do a bog off to one side. That being said, be sure you get your liner put in so that most of your extra is on that side or end! Don't do the center. But, with all the shelves and corners and curves, I don't see any way to measure even with 2' extra and not be worried about some area taking more than you expected, and a too short liner is not going to be fun, in fact it will make everyone sit down and cry! We want no crying in this experience. Just the depth of your pond adds an extra 8' on each the width and length. You said your pond was (if I remember correctly) about 10x12, so that would be 18x20, and your liner is 20x30? I sure don't see a ton of extra, except on the 30' end, and again, you said add a bog, so put that extra all to one end. Are you going to run the liner up the waterfall, or use a different piece for that? The waterfall will take a lot of liner length, too. If you plan to run it up there, and the waterfall is, say 5' long, and it has steps, I see another 8' minimum in the length going into that. So, now the usable liner is 18x28 ... from the beginning I didn't think you had a ton of extra liner, and I know my calcs here are very rough, and you WILL have lots of extra, but this just points out that it's not that much to much.
Keep to your original plan, lay out the liner, smooth out the bottom, once you lay it up over the sides and know you have it where you want it as far as centered, and then once you have the bottom smooth, and up to the shelves smooth, start with the water. If you put water in and then realize you have to move the liner, you have to remove the water. Like Waterbug said, once there is water, the liner under that water will NOT move, trust us!
As I said, I put in carpeting, and it was cut up somewhat, so I laid it over the edges and on the bottom. If you look at my original site, you saw the pics (I posted LOTS!). Then I put on the pond underlayment (again, as I said above, I dug up nails, glass, and cut through lots of roots). The EPDM went next, after the carpet and underlayment were all smoothed out, and they were EASY to smooth out. The liner, much harder, and you will be working with cold liner, which will give even less, but it can be done. Just work together, start at one point, smooth it up and over a shelf, tuck, fold, move over and continue. If you start at same point and work away from each other (2 people I figure), you will keep the liner smooth as possible and come together on the other end. But, get as many folds or pleats made and keep them as smooth as you can BEFORE you put the water in. Once you are satisfied with your results (and feel free to do and redo each other's efforts, or if one is much more particular, let that person go through and smooth out the whole thing again!), start filling. If you can stand the cold, keep going in and pushing the liner to the sides, making sure the pleats are held tight, or put something heavy on the shelves to keep it there works very well!
It will be fun, trust me! Keep your smile on, and have fun, and keep taking pics! Even if you are covered with mud, we don't mind. Teehee, you're the one getting dirty, we're just sitting here watching.

 

[pondlover]

I appreciate Waterbug's response, but I have no intention of cutting the liner, no matter how much is left. I will tuck and fold it under. Who knows what changes I might make after it's done.
Country your suggestions are great. My husband and I will be installing the liner. We were forunate in the fact that the area we chose for our pond had no roots, rocks, glass, etc. Where our house sits is former farm land. :>) We will use the landscape fabric mainly, but in the falls area will place an old comforter under the landscape fabric. We are also going to put some fill sand that we had left from our pool install in the bottom of the pond and shelves, then the landscape fabric. Our pond started out at approx 10x12x36". I think it has grown some. The reason we got the extra length in the liner because I want one piece for entire pond and waterfall. Makes me nervous to think of it not being one piece.
As for my bog area.... I'm not sure if I should put it on the "lower side" of the yard. I think for runoff purposes that might be the area. I would probably need some bricks or something to use as a retaining wall.
Weather is supposed to be in the 50s this weekend. :razz: We will pump out remaining water and then begin liner stall. When we do start smoothing the liner, I thought we would begin at the area with steps and try to work most of the folds and pleats underneath the waterfall. Of course in an ideal world this might work. But I am prepared to just smooth and fold till it looks as good as we can get it.

 

[koiguy1969]

i would never cut the liner before its in. the pond is full and "OPERATIONAL" for a few days minimum.(by operational i mean waterfall running, etc) this lets some settling occur. gives you a chance to envision and plan, get plants, check for leaks, make adjustments,repairs etc... you put the effort into the build and hopefully are going to have the pond for a good long time. and some small changes are likely if not inevitable, its the way of a ponders life. always tweaking and redoing things as your vision of the pond changes. if at all possible, dont cut the liner at all, just fold, roll up, whatever and cover it.with landscape. i wish i wouldnt have trimmed mine. because now i want to redo it, and have the added expense of another liner to do so. i trimmed mine because i simply couldnt not make up my mind how or if to continue, so i cut it to eliminate the dilemna....and i hated that i did very shortly after!! ...just my 2 cents!!!
p.s ***as you said. your planning on a bog....pull every bit of extra liner you can to that area, and naturally, dont skimp on the waterfall area as well, a solid liner is less likely to leak than 2 peices, even bonded or seamed together.

 

[sissy]

True the weight of water on the ground below makes for a lot of settling .It amazed me as my liner in some spots settled ove 6 inches and my ground is clay .I was amazed at how hard a piece of rubber can be to shape .I marked my liner with a red marker just so I could tell how much it settled .It took almost 2 months before I notice the settling slowed down and stopped.I think the red marker gave me a real idea at how much it settled , everytime I added more water and the mark got below the water line I would measure up a couple of inches from the last mark and add a new mark and I made sure I wrote it all down on a paper each time .I wish I would have had my digital camera at the time so it would have been easier to keep track of it .I think the deeper you go the more settling you get as the weight of the water just makes it settle more .I had some spots that settled more than 6 inches but I think that was due to all the backfill dirt that was brought in when my house was built and the basement was dug out on that side .It was only around a year and a half from the build of the house and putting in the second pond was .I put the first preformed pond in and realized real fast how fast fish grow .

 

[rebelangel_3733]

hum am now glad I used a prefab lol...I just had to worry about it being level so the water didn't run out the other side. I don't think I'd cut the liner either beforehand and never thought about settling after water was put in. These folks are good listen to them! Good luck and post lots of pics!

 

[sissy]

I had a problem with my preformed at keeping it level .It seemed every spring I would have to relevel it .

 

[rebelangel_3733]

Oh Lord sissy dont tell me that! lol great something to look forward to...although with not much snow/rain this winter here maybe it wont move...was still like 2 inches lower on one side last year. Although I covered that up with my rock job pretty well and just remembered not to overfill it by looking at certain rocks up the side.

 

[sissy]

I had to empty the water a little and put a board under the low edge and pour sand down under that side and then remove the board and let it settle down again .After having to do it 3 times and fish getting to big decided it was time to go bigger .

 

[koiguy1969]

R.A...(thats rebelangel, not rhumetoid arthritis) the freeze, thaw cycle can wreek havoc on a preformed pond. lifting and settling it out of level, or even cracking it...dont want to scare ya, but just a word of caution.
edit....OH... i see its been mentioned....well good luck, it doesnt mean it will happen to you, just a possibility.

 

[rebelangel_3733]

Well I dont think the ground has even really froze here yet this year except for maybe the first inch...been nice other than that past week so far where it got in the teens. Crossing my fingers for sure!

 

[pondlover]

My fabulous husband got the standing water out of the pond. Hopefully we will have some sun tomorrow to help dry it more. Saturday's task is to get shelves reshaped and lowered. I think we are going to go ahead and do the bog now. So tomorrow I go to Lowes to get about 30 blocks for framing purposes. Then the liner install will begin.
as I said, we are putting pool sand on the floor of the pond and the shelves. Then we are using old comforters to place over the waterfall and finally landscape fabric. Husband will help me get liner in pond and I will do my best trying to fold and get it as smooth as possibly. We will position enough to cover the bog side of pond. I was going to have the bog approx 3-6 inches above the water level in pond. Does anyone see any problems with that. I thought it might create a soft sounding trickle as the water leaves the bog back into the pond. We are not in any hurry on this part. I want it to look great.

Definitely going to be a working weekend, but I am looking forward to it. :goldfish: As long as the pond as cycled by spring I'm a happy ponder. OUr local high school sells water plants and koi for great prices. Can't wait for that!!

 

[CountryEscape]

Pondlover, I also have my bog slightly higher than my pond, so the water flows back to the pond. Great idea to elevate it some! And, wow, how wonderful is it that you have high school close by that sells both pond plants and koi! That is extra special as you are helping out the school and the kids and getting a great deal yourself. You are definitely on the right track with everything.
Remember, pictures, pictures, pictures! Even of the pond drained, at least for your own album! And, get someone to take a picture of you as well while digging. Seems often times the photographer did as much work, but never got in the pictures! In my case, I did it solo, so had to balance the camera (I don't have a tripod) and then set timer, run into the pond, hold up "I did it" arms, and wait for the beeps and shutter. LOL
Again, we are all enjoying your dig, especially those of us where it is far too cold and wet to be thinking of building a pond, although you have given me the itch to want to get my second pond started! Enjoy your time together, even though you will be sore, you will be smiling, knowing the hard work will soon pay off with a beautiful pond and trickling water and waterfall to listen to all spring and summer long.

 

[pondlover]

I've done some remeasuring and now am concerned that my liner won't be wide enough for my bog. Can I overlap the bog liner into my pond? The more I read about bogs the more I want one. I love the plants all the plants.
CE... I love how your railing on your deck is contoured for optimum viewing of your pond. What a great idea. I've told my husband that now we are going to have to modify our deck rail for same reason!

 

[Waterbug]

Yes it can be overlapped. Just make sure there is a gap between the liners to stop wicking. If you use caulk make sure it drys before overlapping. The purpose is to create an air gap.

 

[CountryEscape]

Waterbug, thanks so much for the drawings and the great description. I also wondered about adding to my bog, and had heard about water wicking backwards and didn't want that to happen. You have explained the solution very well!
Pondlover, I got the dropped railing idea from a girlfriend, and told her I used her idea. Her boyfriend built her deck in a similar way, but she left the railing off in the low part, put plants there instead. I love that I can see the pond from inside the house and on the deck with no obstructions. My son didn't think it was a good idea, and people have said, "Can you sit on that low part?" Of course it was built to be sat on, so you can REALLY get a close up of the pond. Son loves the idea now as well, and he was my builder of the deck and railing.