How to keep an above-ground pond as warm as possible in a northern region throughout the year? Would it be possible without electricity?

[Wayfarin]

Hello, folks!

As I've mentioned on another thread, we currently have a red-eared slider named Teresa who's been living with us for 12+ years.

She's been living in a 30-gallon tank for most of that time, which is really undersized for an adult red-eared slider.

After discussing the idea of upgrading her to a larger tank with a worker at our nearest pet store, he told me that keeping adult red-eared sliders in glass tanks is risky because they are so active and have such strong shells that they have the capacity to crack or damage glass if they bump into it continuously.

Our red-eared slider has certainly bumped into the glass of her 30-gallon when she's plunged into the water from her basking platform. The glass does appear quite worn from her claws and shell scraping against it as well.

As an adult red-eared slider with an 8" long carapace, I really feel that her space requirements would be difficult to satisfy indoors.

I would love to see her in an outdoor enclosure at least 6' wide by 12' long.

There is one problem with this, though. We recently moved from Connecticut to northern New Hampshire. Where we live is very cold in the winter, down to -20 or even -30 degrees Fahrenheit, although this is rare, and the average is 3-12 degrees Fahrenheit during the coldest months.

Because of the risk of hitting electric wires, I would prefer that the pond within the enclosure be above the ground, although it would still be buried within the above-ground enclosure.
However, I've heard that above-ground ponds are even harder to keep warm than those dug into the ground.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how we could insulate or keep warm an above-ground pond in this freezing climate?
Remember, since the pond has not yet been constructed, ideal locations and structural designs can also be recommended.

I know that red-eared sliders can survive temperatures down to 35 degrees Fahrenheit when hibernating. I've heard that while red-eared sliders can survive lower temperatures, that water temperatures around 70-85 degrees Fahrenheit are ideal for them. Even if we took our turtle indoors in the winter, the outside water temperatures would still be pretty cool for a long time before summer.

As I've mentioned on another thread, the hardest part is that we don't even have outdoor electricity, so an electric water heater may not be possible.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep a pond as warm as possible, without electricity? I'm aiming for subtropical temperatures for most of spring, throughout summer, and most of fall, and temperatures not dropping below 35 degrees Fahrenheit at least at the bottom of the pond.

Well, any suggestions? Would this even be possible in a northern region?

Thanks! God bless!

 

[GBBUDD]

in your build you 'd be looking at spray foam similar to that in a can. But these come in a two part propane tank. Un fortunately your probably only talking a foot of water so that can certainly freeze solid in northern nh. Been there done that in Guilford. YOUR BEST BET IS THE INSULATED sides and bottom though it can be a ridged insulation on the bottom. And then cover the pond in a green house in some way be it plastic or hard panels. Calling collen in canada covered her ponds in similar manner and she seemed to have done just fine. obveously you'll need to design for snow load as well so a narrow demention like 8 feet would be asy to get a steep roof over the pond

 

[JRS]

Without electricity, GBBUDD has the best solution I think for outside. I used to cover my turtle tubs with glass overnight in fall to extend their time outside. What would happen if you have an extended cloudy period and no sun to warm the enclosure? An issue where I am but perhaps not in your area?

I admire your efforts to give your turtle the best home. Natural sun is the best for them but they can be kept inside successfully also, especially if they get to vacation outside in the summer. This has been my method for 20 years.

The smallest tank I keep one of my full grown females in is a 75 gallon, another in a 90 and a peninsula cooter in the 180. They all used to share the 180 when younger, after I took them in from people that did not want them anymore, but they started fighting as they matured. Some folks use stock tanks inside if they have the floor space. I don't have the space and was able to find my big tanks second hand which saved a lot vs. buying new. I use the stock tanks outside in the summer to prevent predators from getting in.

I have never heard of a turtle breaking the glass of a tank but they do clunk around especially if startled as you mentioned. If you go to a larger indoor tank which will have thicker glass, I would not worry about breakage myself. I suspect that the worn area of glass you mentioned is probably just smeared/marked up and not actually gouged or does the glass itself feel rough when clean?

An interesting aside regarding tank size. The first female slider I took in, an ex school pet which graduated to one of the student's homes, was almost full grown and still being kept in a 20 long turtle tank, the kind you can only fill half way. She was in surprisingly good condition though since they changed the water regularly and also let her outside in the yard during the summer. Certainly not recommended but at least they took good care of her otherwise.

 

[Wayfarin]

Without electricity, GBBUDD has the best solution I think for outside. I used to cover my turtle tubs with glass overnight in fall to extend their time outside. What would happen if you have an extended cloudy period and no sun to warm the enclosure? An issue where I am but perhaps not in your area?

I admire your efforts to give your turtle the best home. Natural sun is the best for them but they can be kept inside successfully also, especially if they get to vacation outside in the summer. This has been my method for 20 years.

The smallest tank I keep one of my full grown females in is a 75 gallon, another in a 90 and a peninsula cooter in the 180. They all used to share the 180 when younger, after I took them in from people that did not want them anymore, but they started fighting as they matured. Some folks use stock tanks inside if they have the floor space. I don't have the space and was able to find my big tanks second hand which saved a lot vs. buying new. I use the stock tanks outside in the summer to prevent predators from getting in.

I have never heard of a turtle breaking the glass of a tank but they do clunk around especially if startled as you mentioned. If you go to a larger indoor tank which will have thicker glass, I would not worry about breakage myself. I suspect that the worn area of glass you mentioned is probably just smeared/marked up and not actually gouged or does the glass itself feel rough when clean?

An interesting aside regarding tank size. The first female slider I took in, an ex school pet which graduated to one of the student's homes, was almost full grown and still being kept in a 20 long turtle tank, the kind you can only fill half way. She was in surprisingly good condition though since they changed the water regularly and also let her outside in the yard during the summer. Certainly not recommended but at least they took good care of her otherwise.

Yeah, unfortunately the front yard, on the north side of our house, only receives a few hours of sun in the warmer months and sometimes has extended cloudy periods in the winter. The south side in the back is somewhat sunnier and even warmer in the winter, though it still has its cloudy winters. Sometimes in early spring the snow thaws in the backyard and remains in the front.

This is a real shame since I had planned to build the pond in the front because the backyard is where our dogs hang out, and since there are more woods in the back, so there are more wild animals. But I would worry that a pond in the front would not receive the required warmth from the sun in the winter.

Yeah, after keeping her for this long I'm convinced that red-eared sliders are really outdoor pets like koi. But living in northern New Hampshire, I would need some serious advice if I'm intending to keep her outdoors many states north of her native range.
From what I've read about them, RES turtles prefer warmer water temperatures and can become sick or sluggish from prolonged exposure to cooler water. So even the spring and fall temperatures would have me a bit worried.
I would really prefer to brumate Teresa if possible, whether indoors or outdoors.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure some of the spots on the glass are rough and imply wear. She's been kept in a 30-gallon, which I'm finding out is not at all fit for a mature turtle. At first we kept the water level low (thank God she survived those years since her living conditions were honestly terrible) but then we were able to give her a basking platform suspended above her tank, and we filled it up all the way.
It took a lot longer for her to dirty her water when it was filled up all the way, and the siphon, I found out, was the best invention for turtles that wasn't made for turtles. So we had a happier turtle, but now she's in a plastic bin about the same size, and her living conditions have not improved at all. She has clean water at least, but this is not the life I want for her.

 

[JRS]

RES turtles prefer warmer water temperatures and can become sick or sluggish from prolonged exposure to cooler water. So even the spring and fall temperatures would have me a bit worried.

Since RES are native to areas up to Northern IL and Indiana, I just make sure they can thermo-regulate with an appropriate basking area. I keep my tanks in the basement (usually 65-70 degrees) without heaters but they all have an above water basking area with a heat lamp to get warm as they choose. I usually put them outside sometime in May/June and bring them in sometime in September/October, depending on the weather/sun.

 

[Wayfarin]

Since RES are native to areas up to Northern IL and Indiana, I just make sure they can thermo-regulate with an appropriate basking area. I keep my tanks in the basement (usually 65-70 degrees) without heaters but they all have an above water basking area with a heat lamp to get warm as they choose. I usually put them outside sometime in May/June and bring them in sometime in September/October, depending on the weather/sun.

I was actually hoping to overwinter her at the bottom of the pond, but that might be too risky.

 

[Wayfarin]

in your build you 'd be looking at spray foam similar to that in a can. But these come in a two part propane tank. Un fortunately your probably only talking a foot of water so that can certainly freeze solid in northern nh. Been there done that in Guilford. YOUR BEST BET IS THE INSULATED sides and bottom though it can be a ridged insulation on the bottom. And then cover the pond in a green house in some way be it plastic or hard panels. Calling collen in canada covered her ponds in similar manner and she seemed to have done just fine. obveously you'll need to design for snow load as well so a narrow demention like 8 feet would be asy to get a steep roof over the pond

We are able to dig the pond down to 2 feet deep, but since it would have a raised build, it would not technically be underground.
I was thinking it should be something like one of these two (these are not my pictures or my ponds).

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bc/2e/1e/bc2e1e0dbec6a48a6f512d220196c10a.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/c2/cd/77c2cdef8d2136b6ba54ba9a18fc6635.jpg