How to secure a retaining wall around a hillside pond?

[sissy]

I did my slopping hill with rocks and it was not easy to carry each one up the hill only thing you have to watch out for is fertilizers and stuff washing down the hill

 

[Lisak1]

I know nothing about building walls, so I won't even comment on that. However, I did want to offer up the suggestion that you consider carefully how narrow you build the "legs" on your C shaped pond. Any time you create a narrow area in a pond (not including streams of course) you create an area that has the tendency to be stagnant. Just a thought!

You have a lovely spot for a pond! It will be fun to see it develop!

 

[kate blanchett]

Just got back from volleyball.....needed a little outlet for my anxious energy.

I am attaching an image I found on-line that somewhat reflects the overall image I am going for:

The rock wall (mine are much smaller rocks).
Waterfall coming out of rock wall.
Cut into a hill.
Mulch and plantings around the perimeter of the pond.

I have talked to my neighbour and I think (although, I'm just guestimating) that there will be enough rock to do the wall project. All FREE! Buying large rocks for the base is a great idea; but it is really out of the question for me at this point. However, I live on a "mountain" and there are big rocks all around me; but they wouldn't be nice square rocks.

I had the excavator dude separate the biggest rocks he pulled out off to the side ~ with the intention of putting some of them back into the pond for a puddle-jumping affect. Not sure if they would be helpful for the base of the wall or not?

If I understand your concept of the triangle, it sounds almost like a right angled pyramid, kinda sorta. Is that correct? If so, that MAY be more rocks than I have, not sure.

I hadn't initially planned on placing rocks around the entire perimeter of the pond; but after seeing this picture (see attached), I'm thinking it might look better.

My greatest sense of ignorance is about what to do BEHIND the rock wall........ The cliff is not a perfect straight vertical backing. I'd be building this tower of rocks with nothing for it to lean on in either direction. Then, once it's constructed, do I back-fill carefully with dirt. Tamping it down gently to create a "backrest"? What then if I have to get to the waterfall gizmo?

I am so grateful for the help I am receiving on here. I really want to learn how to do this myself without having to hire someone (which is not an option anyway).

Cheers, Katie

 

[kate blanchett]

I did my slopping hill with rocks and it was not easy to carry each one up the hill only thing you have to watch out for is fertilizers and stuff washing down the hill

Holy catfish! That is a lot of stone! And I thought my hill was formidable!!

 

[Lisak1]

You want to build the berm first and set your waterfall box and weir into the berm as you build it. Your berm should slope to the back - no steep cliff or drop off. You definitely don't want to set the stone first and then try to back fill around it. There are lots of youtube videos that show how to build a waterfall - by watching them you can get great tips that will help you avoid common mistakes and pitfalls. Building the waterfall was the hardest part of our pond build - we hand selected each rock at the "rock store" to get just the look we wanted. We used the biggest rocks we could manage in the waterfall - it's more stable I think.

You're on your way!

 

[kate blanchett]

I know nothing about building walls, so I won't even comment on that. However, I did want to offer up the suggestion that you consider carefully how narrow you build the "legs" on your C shaped pond. Any time you create a narrow area in a pond (not including streams of course) you create an area that has the tendency to be stagnant. Just a thought!

You have a lovely spot for a pond! It will be fun to see it develop!

a) I really appreciate the encouragement I am getting on this site! I know I am over my head ~ but it doesn't improve my ability to deal with the work ahead to have nay-sayers rubbing that in my face. It is soooooo wonderful to be receiving so many positive comments. Thank you to everyone for that!

b) Thanks for the point about the stagnant shallow legs. Is there a remedy for that? Perhaps certain plants or something else to create motion? The "legs" will protrude 4 or 5 feet from the main body (it is really more of a kidney than a C. It's kinda like a big fat balloon font C).

K.

 

[Lisak1]

I've seen ponds with jets installed in those "dead spots". I'm not exactly sure how that works, but I think it involves additional plumbing attached to the pump, or even an additional pump. I guess you could also keep an airstone in that area to kept the water moving, but you may still find that those spots trap debris. Ideally your water will move across the pond from your waterfall toward the skimmer (assuming you have one) and the whole surface of the pond essentially follows the current, if that makes sense.

I wanted to add - don't worry about not knowing just how everything will work out before you start. We muddled through, and even the things we thought we had well planned had to be modified as we worked through it.

 

[sissy]

plants will suck up nutrients and the hill will do a good job of aerating the water .I would guess if you did like addy did with small retention ponds on the way down the hill it would help .I have a air stone in my little plant pond before my big pond .I have a hose from my pump in it with ball valves that also help .The plants clean the water.not finished hiding them

 

[kate blanchett]

Sorry for my late response I was at work. Just take a breath. You have a great design and it will work out. Do not worry about the mess now, all pond demo starts out looking terrible. You will need larger and much more stone to pull off a retaining wall of that size. I do like the idea of more slope. That will make your life easier. If you want the wall it can be done but it will have to be done right without much room for error. The idea of more slope will be more forgiving. You will not need concrete at all. On a hill of that size you may be better off to get someone with a machine to set some larger stones for you at the base, I know that sounds expensive but it might be cheaper then all the additional stone you will need unless the stone is free. If you decide on the wall route let me know and I will try to explain in detail what will be needed to build a safe and good looking wall. The key is to interlock the wall and most people build retaining walls way to thin. To do it right you need to build the base as deep as the vertical face that you see. Think of a triangle effect. The reason for this is so the earth helps hold everything down. This way you kinda know what you will be up against if you go the wall direction. To give you a idea of a dry stack that needs no cement the wall below is about 4ft + on the back side. if I wanted the entire thing to be a retaining wall I would have made the wall thicker at the base. The only thing I may cement is the very top of the wall so it makes a solid cap, this is not needed if you have large enough stones.

View attachment 69649

Hi RobAmy,

I checked out your Flickr link. Stunning photographs! But in particular I wanted to comment on your snowy pond video. It has the exact right feel of what I am going for. The conifer at the left of the video is at the bottom of my C. I plan on moving my Japanese maple, some tall grasses, Hostas, some shrubs, and maybe an ornamental tree around the base of the perimeter as well.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for including that link. Your pond is just lovely and very inspiring!

 

[kate blanchett]

plants will suck up nutrients and the hill will do a good job of aerating the water .I would guess if you did like addy did with small retention ponds on the way down the hill it would help .I have a air stone in my little plant pond before my big pond .I have a hose from my pump in it with ball valves that also help .The plants clean the water.not finished hiding them

Great work.....it's really coming along! Good for you!

Words I've had to look up today:
Berm
Turve
Weir (in this specific usage)
Air stone

Learning is fun!

 

[Tula]

Your yard looks beautiful, it will be a beautiful spot for a pond

 

[kate blanchett]

Just got out of the shower, where I do my best thinking.....

RobAmy, I do look forward to hearing more explicit directions about the actual wall construction (let's be optimistic that I have enough rocks). I could simply place a single layer of rocks around the entire perimeter of the pond; and then build what height of wall I can with the remaining rocks. If it doesn't go all the way up to the top of the cliff, I could then slope the rest of it like Troutredd's rockery slope.

Whilst you won't find anyone more amenable to your attitude of "doing it right" (for example, I never use caulking to hide an imperfect cut when I make a mitered corner!!); let's consider the idea that you've decided to make a birthday cake for your mom's birthday and you've discovered at the eleventh hour that you don't have eggs. What do you do? Obviously you google "egg substitutions" and decide to add 3 Tablespoons of mayonaise in its place. Sooooooo, my question is, IF I don't have enough rocks for this lovely-properly-built-stable-triangle-of-rocks to build the wall, what can I do instead to add stability?

Also, if I don't need to make a concrete foundation, how do I make the berm stay put? Won't it fall apart (erode)? And should the rocks begin at the water level or submerge below the water?

One more thing: Should I begin the liner at the top of the cliff (even though the water level is five feet down) as a way of preventing erosion from the rain? I'm thinking NOT, since you mentioned the dry stacked rocks act as a drain. But I wondered about the issue of erosion ~ just trying to imagine as many problems as possible.

Food for thought!
Night night, everyone! I look forward to checking back to hear from you in the morning!
K.

 

[RobAmy]

I wish I lived closer it would be easier to show you. Here is a fairly good video on YouTube to understand the basic construction of the wall. I would like to see your base a bit wider then on the video.

As far as what to put on the top of the wall if you run short on stone, I have to say nothing will be cheaper then rocks if you can get them. This is not a simple questions, really depends on the height you stop at and what is left. You can easily build the wall and then finish with a slope but angle the slope enough as not to put all the down pressure on the wall. As far as erosion goes, if the wall is thick enough (and it needs to be for your project) there will be no erosion. You do not want to put the liner under all that weight, your wall will weigh tons. Also if you ever had a leak you do not want to have to take that wall down. The picture you posted is much smaller then your wall so tough to duplicate.

I personally think if you want a waterfall built into the wall like that and at that height you want to consult a stone mason face to face, it will not be a easy project. Seeing your photos I would slope more and build a long waterfall in the hill side, it would look beautiful and more natural then a vertical wall (just my opinion). Look at Troutredds picture, your waterfall, stream could be where the steps are as a example. Don't forget to plan on plumbing, electrical etc before any wall is built.

I personally put my rocks below the water line so the liner is not exposed.

 

[addy1]

My pond is on a steep slope the up hill side of the pond is a rock wall, just stacked. My pond is on its 4 year, the slope and wall has held well.
I put a slight raise to the dirt above the rock wall and when digging made the slope so the rain water coming down the slope would flow around the pond, not into it. The pallet on the left is the rocks used on the slope.
The slope is angled back around 25 degrees, maybe, (an estimate) The down slope side of the pond and bog is a dirt berm, I used the dig dirt to build the berm to make the pond level, Dry Stacked
We do freeze and thaw here, so far good, this is the walls 4 year







this is our slope the pond ended up down by the two apple trees you can see, I looked for the "flattest" part to do the build

 

[kate blanchett]

I wish I lived closer it would be easier to show you. Here is a fairly good video on YouTube to understand the basic construction of the wall. I would like to see your base a bit wider then on the video.

As far as what to put on the top of the wall if you run short on stone, I have to say nothing will be cheaper then rocks if you can get them. This is not a simple questions, really depends on the height you stop at and what is left. You can easily build the wall and then finish with a slope but angle the slope enough as not to put all the down pressure on the wall. As far as erosion goes, if the wall is thick enough (and it needs to be for your project) there will be no erosion. You do not want to put the liner under all that weight, your wall will weigh tons. Also if you ever had a leak you do not want to have to take that wall down. The picture you posted is much smaller then your wall so tough to duplicate.

I personally think if you want a waterfall built into the wall like that and at that height you want to consult a stone mason face to face, it will not be a easy project. Seeing your photos I would slope more and build a long waterfall in the hill side, it would look beautiful and more natural then a vertical wall (just my opinion). Look at Troutredds picture, your waterfall, stream could be where the steps are as a example. Don't forget to plan on plumbing, electrical etc before any wall is built.

I personally put my rocks below the water line so the liner is not exposed.

I wish I lived closer it would be easier to show you. Here is a fairly good video on YouTube to understand the basic construction of the wall. I would like to see your base a bit wider then on the video.

As far as what to put on the top of the wall if you run short on stone, I have to say nothing will be cheaper then rocks if you can get them. This is not a simple questions, really depends on the height you stop at and what is left. You can easily build the wall and then finish with a slope but angle the slope enough as not to put all the down pressure on the wall. As far as erosion goes, if the wall is thick enough (and it needs to be for your project) there will be no erosion. You do not want to put the liner under all that weight, your wall will weigh tons. Also if you ever had a leak you do not want to have to take that wall down. The picture you posted is much smaller then your wall so tough to duplicate.

I personally think if you want a waterfall built into the wall like that and at that height you want to consult a stone mason face to face, it will not be a easy project. Seeing your photos I would slope more and build a long waterfall in the hill side, it would look beautiful and more natural then a vertical wall (just my opinion). Look at Troutredds picture, your waterfall, stream could be where the steps are as a example. Don't forget to plan on plumbing, electrical etc before any wall is built.

I personally put my rocks below the water line so the liner is not exposed.

Thank you! I've downloaded the video; but haven't watched it yet ~ so if it answers this question, just ignore.......

That makes sense about having the liner accessible in case of a leak. But if I don't put it on top of the berm/under the stone wall, where/how do I affix it around that end of the pond?