How to stop the carnage? :(

[sissy]

They have a lot of videos on you tube of the skimmer from the company who invented them .I know I saw a couple of ponds on the house tour here and they had them .I liked watching them whirl around .They are also easy to clean .I stayed behind and pulled that little thing up and there was stuff in it .You don't have to turn the pump off .I also saw them at the aquascape store in NC at there ponds .But they sure are not cheap

 

[MitchM]

Yup, you've got a macerator there, Mitch.

You could switch it out to a Helix skimmer (look them up), or simply try to mirror the construction of the Helix. I've installed a couple of them and they're a decent product.

Here's a YouTube video showing the free-floating intake. After the first install I did I think I spent about 20 minutes just watching it. I'm easily amused, it would seem.

View attachment 90496

Do you have to completely drain them for winter?

.

 

[sissy]

I know at the NC living waterscapes they drain them to prevent damage and they don't get as cold there as here .I asked when I was there .They are in colfax on Edicott rd It is called living waterscapes .I was amazed by there ponds and it was raining the day my sister and I went

 

[Meyer Jordan]

The Helix is a novel design, but it is not that much safer for fish than a skimmer with a basket instead of a mesh net. The Helix was originally marketed as fish safe, but videos have surfaced that show fish entering the debris basket and swimming back out. These were large Koi. I would think that smaller fish, such as Goldies, might have a more difficult time freeing themselves.

 

[MitchM]

That's going to be a problem anywhere you have a lot of fast flowing water concentrated to one area.
That's why I was wondering about aeration only and how effective using that method could be.
My low flow indoor setup with the substrate bottom seems to be pretty effective so far as well.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

That's going to be a problem anywhere you have a lot of fast flowing water concentrated to one area.
That's why I was wondering about aeration only and how effective using that method could be.
My low flow indoor setup with the substrate bottom seems to be pretty effective so far as well.

The only problem that I see with use of solely an aerator is- Do you have the correct ratio of SSA to fish mass without the addition of supplemental bioconversion?
Also, a surface aerator may not provide the needed overall water column circulation required where a diffuser would.

 

[MitchM]

I was considering a number diffusers placed on the bottom, that's what I was referring to by aeration.
My fish population is 8 goldfish and 1000 minnows.
There is a healthy coating of periphyton on the entire pond liner but more complex marginal plants just do not grow with my water temperature.
I do have a natural pond in my backyard to use for an example of which plants do well here.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

You can arrive

I was considering a number diffusers placed on the bottom, that's what I was referring to by aeration.
My fish population is 8 goldfish and 1000 minnows.
There is a healthy coating of periphyton on the entire pond liner but more complex marginal plants just do not grow with my water temperature.
I do have a natural pond in my backyard to use for an example of which plants do well here.

View attachment 90500

You can arrive at a working estimate of your total fish mass by using either-
http://www.russellwatergardens.com/koi-weight/
or
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/koicalcs.php?do=calcnh3c

You can get needed SSA using these conversions
1 SSA will convert 1 mg of Ammonia per day. 1 gram of fish weight produces 0.20 mg of Ammonia per day (based on 3% of weight/day feeding levels).

 

[MitchM]

Ok, so let's go through the exercise ("us" being "me" doing the calculations)
I have
18 inches of goldfish which will produce 320.63 mg NH3/24 hour period
1000 minnows at an average length of 0.5 inches each which will produce 25 mg NH3/24 hour period

Which is 345.63 mg NH3 total produced in a 24 hour period.
I have no mechanical filtration but I do have submerged liner surface area of approximately 1600 sq. ft. which equals 1600 SSA which means that my pond biological filter can process 1600 mg NH3/24 hour period.

That is well within the boundaries of what waste my fish population produces.

Sound about right?

.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Ok, so let's go through the exercise ("us" being "me" doing the calculations)
I have
18 inches of goldfish which will produce 320.63 mg NH3/24 hour period
1000 minnows at an average length of 0.5 inches each which will produce 25 mg NH3/24 hour period

Which is 345.63 mg NH3 total produced in a 24 hour period.
I have no mechanical filtration but I do have submerged liner surface area of approximately 1600 sq. ft. which equals 1600 SSA which means that my pond biological filter can process 1600 mg NH3/24 hour period.

That is well within the boundaries of what waste my fish population produces.

Sound about right?

.

Sounds about right.
This is enough available SSA to oxidize any NH3 that may be produced by organic decay.
The strategic placement of a diffuser(s) will create a similar water flow over the liner as occurs in a biofilter thus maximizing oxidation.
An interesting side note- your present ratio of SSA to fish mass may play an important role in keeping your fish alive during the winter ice-over. This may account for no fish loss,

 

[MitchM]

Another good reason for understocking a pond.
I also find it interesting that my fish population has settled out to a relatively low number vs what the pond biofilter can handle.
There is no shortage of algae and bugs for the fish to eat, so I'm not sure what the limiting factor could be.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I also find it interesting that my fish population has settled out to a relatively low number

This could be due to the minnow population. What specie of minnow do you have? Many are piscavores.

 

[MitchM]

Rosy Red minnow Pimephales promelas

 

[MitchM]

Actually, I just remembered that I have a predatory water beetle population that can rise and fall in pretty large numbers.
That's probably the reason for the stable fish population.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

And the minnow will eat the Goldfish eggs.
FLASH! Did you know that Goldfish are actually classified as minnows?