Keep or Remove Leaves

Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
4,523
Reaction score
3,717
Location
Desoto, Texas (Dallas County) North Texas, Zone 8a
Showcase(s):
1
Guess it's just up to Big Lou whether he wants his pond full up w/ leaves. I don't know how deep your pond is Lou but if it's fairly shallow seems like at some point it would become just muck and full of leaves and not much water. It actually could be just a big hole full of compost couldn't it? If it's deep enough then the leaves would have time to dissolve and particles would float out over the edge from rainwater. I'm just working all this out in my head right now and not saying this is fact. But isn't it true that a small puddle in the woods when fills up w/ leaves etc. will just eventually be a pile of muck? How deep does a wildlife pond have to be so that one could still enjoy seeing some water and not just muck? I think Lou still wants it to look nice too and not just see composting leaves.

Everyone's opinions and recommendations were read with great interest and certainly appreciated. I think the bottom line is that our pond is not big enough to deal with the abundant amount of leaves and such available.

I will be removing as many of the leaves as possible using a pole mounded pond bottom net rake and surface debris net. The depth of my pond varies with the deepest point being 3.5', length 22', width varies from about 4' to 11'. The water is and always has been crystal clear. I do believe there will be enough natural organic matter remaing in the pond to promote non-fish pond life. Happy to report we now have two frogs. In closing, the last professional cleaning cost $500! Massive amounts of foul smelling muck removed. Hopefully my now and then maintence will help us avoid such a high expense come late summer.

Varing opinions ARE good. It would be such a dull world if everyone agreed all of the time. :)

Thank you,
The Big Lou
 

HARO

Pondcrastinator
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
5,439
Reaction score
6,233
Location
Ontario, Canada
Hardiness Zone
5b
Country
Canada
Damn! I try to 'Like' ONE post, and I'm told I've used up my quota for the day!! :grumble: I LIKE IT! So there!
John
 

j.w

I Love my Goldies
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
33,141
Reaction score
20,391
Location
Arlington, Washington
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
USDA 8a
Country
United States
Ha Ha John you finally got the "Like" virus...............isn't it frustrating
xmassmiley12.gif
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
3,214
Reaction score
1,297
Location
Phoenix AZ
Natural wetlands are not ornamental ponds.
I think that is the source of the misunderstanding. Yes, a natural wetland is indeed not an ornamental pond. Allowing leaves to accumulate in an ornamental pond is indeed a poor choice. And if this thread was discussing ornamental ponds there would be some point to all the demonizing: "rat tail maggots", "pollution", etc.
Remember ours is a nature pond with zero fish.
But the OP wasn't talking about an ornamental pond and made a point of saying so.

If I might jump ahead to the next inevitable point "OK, well, a backyard wildlife pond isn't the Everglades!". Well yes. But it is very much like the millions of small pools found in forests and fields throughout the entire planet. In the world of bacteria and small bugs there is zero difference between a small backyard pond and a small pool or pond found any other place on the planet . If you took a water sample from the backyard pond and any wetland or small pool or pond and gave it to a biologist and a chemist they wouldn't be able to say which came from a backyard pond and which came from a wetland. And depending on the size and climate a natural backyard pond can attract and support many higher animals like frogs, turtles, snakes, salamanders. A good sized pond and surrounding cover can support many birds as well. I'm not talking just about as a water source but also as a food source as most natural ponds produce an abundance of insect life.

There have been many studies which show salamanders and other amphibians to be one of the best indicators of a water system's health. So while some people might consider these to be cesspools the salamanders and scientists would disagree. I'm more inclined to believe a salamander over any internet post just based on past experience. I might even tend to believe the scientists too over an internet post, although I know in many circles science is still considered evil.

If a person dare think beyond a backyard goldfish tank you will find there's actually a pretty big and diverse world out there including a fairly large group of people dedicated to creating backyard habitats including those specifically for salamanders, more sensitive to pollution than even fish. And what's one of the things to add to the habitat...dead and decaying leaves. And building a wildlife pond one important ingredient is organic matter, like hay in this case, but any organic matter will do including leaves.

The bottom line is if every pond has to be the same thing, liner, potted plants, goldfish, then yeah, leaves are a terrible thing to add. But if a person expands their understanding of the world even just a tiny bit they might see there is a bigger world out there. That there are actually many kinds of ponds. Maybe not in this forum, but the info is out there for those who care.
 

j.w

I Love my Goldies
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
33,141
Reaction score
20,391
Location
Arlington, Washington
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
USDA 8a
Country
United States
I think Big Lou's already made his decision so time for some fun
xmassmiley16.gif

Here's lookin at ya Big Lou
xmassmiley21.gif

snowfightgotcha.gif
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
4,523
Reaction score
3,717
Location
Desoto, Texas (Dallas County) North Texas, Zone 8a
Showcase(s):
1
I think that is the source of the misunderstanding. Yes, a natural wetland is indeed not an ornamental pond. Allowing leaves to accumulate in an ornamental pond is indeed a poor choice. And if this thread was discussing ornamental ponds there would be some point to all the demonizing: "rat tail maggots", "pollution", etc.

But the OP wasn't talking about an ornamental pond and made a point of saying so.

If I might jump ahead to the next inevitable point "OK, well, a backyard wildlife pond isn't the Everglades!". Well yes. But it is very much like the millions of small pools found in forests and fields throughout the entire planet. In the world of bacteria and small bugs there is zero difference between a small backyard pond and a small pool or pond found any other place on the planet . If you took a water sample from the backyard pond and any wetland or small pool or pond and gave it to a biologist and a chemist they wouldn't be able to say which came from a backyard pond and which came from a wetland. And depending on the size and climate a natural backyard pond can attract and support many higher animals like frogs, turtles, snakes, salamanders. A good sized pond and surrounding cover can support many birds as well. I'm not talking just about as a water source but also as a food source as most natural ponds produce an abundance of insect life.

There have been many studies which show salamanders and other amphibians to be one of the best indicators of a water system's health. So while some people might consider these to be cesspools the salamanders and scientists would disagree. I'm more inclined to believe a salamander over any internet post just based on past experience. I might even tend to believe the scientists too over an internet post, although I know in many circles science is still considered evil.

If a person dare think beyond a backyard goldfish tank you will find there's actually a pretty big and diverse world out there including a fairly large group of people dedicated to creating backyard habitats including those specifically for salamanders, more sensitive to pollution than even fish. And what's one of the things to add to the habitat...dead and decaying leaves. And building a wildlife pond one important ingredient is organic matter, like hay in this case, but any organic matter will do including leaves.

The bottom line is if every pond has to be the same thing, liner, potted plants, goldfish, then yeah, leaves are a terrible thing to add. But if a person expands their understanding of the world even just a tiny bit they might see there is a bigger world out there. That there are actually many kinds of ponds. Maybe not in this forum, but the info is out there for those who care.

We consider our man made, EDPM lined, 2000< > ornamental pond a nature pond simply because its purpose is to provide a source of non-chlorinated water to wildlife. There are few year round sources of such water in our immediate area. I regret any inconvience that may have been caused my man made ponds description.

So as J.W. wrote "time for some fun"!
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
3,214
Reaction score
1,297
Location
Phoenix AZ
Yeah, would have been nice to have that clarification a few days ago.

If a water source is what's desired you should keep it as clean as possible even to the point of adding chlorine. Just depends how far you want to go.

But of course animals,including humans, have been drinking out of pretty poor water sources for a really long time and seem to be doing OK. So I personally wouldn't see the need for prefect water. You could check the specific tree you have to see if their leaves are toxic. Most plants are toxic in some form and I think most risks on the internet are way over hyped. But if that kind of thing bothers you then you can check.

I believe this is a forum for discussing ponds so I think it's reasonable to expect some people to actually want to discuss ponds and how they work, even if they disagree. Many, many threads, almost all threads here are just for fun and have little to do with ponds. There's even an entire category just for chit chat. I realize JW would like every thread to just be happy thoughts and animated cartoons. But every once in awhile there is always the risk that a serious discussion might break out. It's the price a person pays for coming to any any forum. Of course there is always the option of not reading threads that aren't happy enough for them. After all It's not a requirement to read and post to every thread.
 

j.w

I Love my Goldies
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
33,141
Reaction score
20,391
Location
Arlington, Washington
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
USDA 8a
Country
United States
Geeze,are you saying I read and post in every thread water bug? I post where I want to when I want to and what I want to serious,happy or whatever. I think you could try and be a little bit more understanding when you post than at least what you appear to be. And you don't always have to be right do you? Sounds like you take offense to what I post. If what I post disturbs you than just ignore it and be unhappy or whatever you choose. I don't try and stop anyone from posting what they believe or what they want to say at least I hope I don't sound that way.Serious doesn't bother me but I thought this thread was going off in a direction opposite of what the person wanted to know. Excuse me for budding into your territory if that's what you think I did. It's not a requirement to read and post every thread you say? First of all is if I read every thread and post in every one which I don't, what business is it of yours? Why do you always sound so persnickety,obstinate and difficult most of the time. Maybe I'm misreading you and I'm sure you'll come back w/ your usual remarks on how you didn't say this or that and I'm taking everything out of context so go for it and I'll just smile and be happy while you sit there and be grumpy. I know this is a forum for discussing ponds and I expect serious discussions of ponds and how they work. I'm not stopping you am I? Say and do whatever you want and so will I. I'm gonna be happy now whether you like it or not :D
 

callingcolleen1

mad hatter
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
9,431
Reaction score
8,128
Location
Medicine Hat Alberta, Canada (zone 2/3)
Hardiness Zone
4a
Country
Canada
JW, it's OK, I like you to post everywhere cause your posts make me happy and I love your little things you got jumping up and down, they make me laugh, and laughing is good.

Some male do go thru "menapause" ha ha, and we have to be understanding of these people with this condition, ha ha ha :)
 

j.w

I Love my Goldies
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
33,141
Reaction score
20,391
Location
Arlington, Washington
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
USDA 8a
Country
United States
Lol, Colleen I'm glad there are people here who enjoy having fun and don't worry about being so serious all the time. You made me laugh w/ your male menopause theory and I will sure try to be understanding to those w/ that condition
Schneeemann2.gif
 

j.w

I Love my Goldies
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
33,141
Reaction score
20,391
Location
Arlington, Washington
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
USDA 8a
Country
United States
Hey Big Lou did you ever notice that you would make a great Santa Claus cuz you've got the beard and mustache to fit the job. For your Christmas avatar you should put on a Santa hat and put that up there for the holidays
xmassmiley25.gif
 

addy1

water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
44,445
Reaction score
29,259
Location
Frederick, Maryland
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
Yep a great santa! Totally agree JW. I want some fudge too! Chocolate is my favorite!
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
30,974
Messages
510,722
Members
13,207
Latest member
scruphdawg

Latest Threads

Top