Koi always at the surface

koiguy1969

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water changes usually will do the trick in lowering nitrites atleast temporarily. but the biggest cause of nitrites is insufficient bio filtration.....this is my post from a previous thread:
just thought i'd give a breif explaination of the nitrification cycle...fish waste and dead plant matter produce ammonias as they decompose... nitrosomas bacteria breaks down the ammonias to nitrites. nitrites are sill poisonous to fish, by way of accumalative damage...nitrites are absorbed into and stored in the blood stream of the fish. when enough accumaltes the fish become ill with whats known as brown blood disease, (nitrite poisoning)...now another strain of bacteria (nitrobacters) comes into play. this bacteria breaks down nitrites to nitrates. nitrates are used by your plants as food. both of these bacterias come in two different subcatagories known as aerobic and anaerobic..the aerobic bacterias are the desired bacteria. the anaerobic bacterias are not desirable. but are present in the ecosystem....aerobic (high oxygen) and anaerobic (low to no oxygen) bacterias both perform the same task but the anaerobic bacteria produces toxic gases as a byproduct of its process, namely hydrogen sulfide..when high levels of anaerobic bacterias are present your pond and/or filter may give off a rotten egg smell, this is the hydrogen sulfide.
 
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Yes which iis why I am surprised. I have built the skippy filtert like you have described in so much detail. I have 800 scrubbies plus 100 3M 96 scotch brite pads as bio filter in my 150 gallon rubbermaid stock tank. This is for a 2200 gallon pond. I have only 10 3-5" koi and 2 14-15" koi. I think that filtration should be good enough.

15% of my pond is covered with water hyacinth.

Thing to note is that my water is very hard and with high pH,
 
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Update as of today.
Water is testing borderline nitrite, close to stress. Nitrates are 10ppm, ammonia is 0. ph is about 8.4 (always been that way). Very hard water with high alkalinity.

I did not see the black kois come to the surface too much today. It has been very hot for the past 2 days, close to 100 during the days.

I tried to clear out my water hyacinth since I felt that the fish are not feeding becase they are eating the hyacinth. I removed all the hyacinths and saw that many of them had brown bulbs rotting and a lot of brown leaves. I am not sure if that will contribute to nitrites but I trimmed all of them and discarded the brown bulbs and brown leaves. Then I put most of them in the bio-filter. I only have 5-8 in the pond now.

Now atleast I can see most of my fish. Will check nitrites again tomorrow and post back.

P.S: I did not add any food today.

I added Nite Out II two days ago so I don't think I need to add anymore, but will do so in a few days.
 

stroppy

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i still think your problem might be the water is too warm ...could you maybe fix up some shade and small water changes daily would help dilute the nitrites and cool the pond a little
 
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Really? High water temperature causes nitrites? ALso mmy night time temperatures are generally 60-65degrees so that must cool the water down quite a bit.
There is nothing I can do to shade it other than build a patio or something similar but I don't have the resources to do that now.

I do have higher than normal evaporation for the past few days so I will add more water to cool it offf a bit. WIll post back readings today.
 

stroppy

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no i didnt meen it causes nitrites but it doesnt help your fish if the water is too warm ... and water holds it temperture so although the air might get colder the pond might not drop ...just trying to help
 
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Oh, I totally see that you are trying to help. I did not mean my quesiton in a derogatory way.
Thanks Stroppy.

I see that all the fish are huddled under the couple of water hyacinths that I have in the pond. I guess it is getting warm in the water. I should buy my thermometer today.
 
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It is not uncommon to see them huddling together like that. They are schooling fish and like to do that. Have you tried a little bit of food just to see if they will eat a little? Yoiu may have to put it in and hide off to the side and see if they come up and eat.
I removed a bunch of hyacinth this last weekend from my pond. The fish have been eating on them so much the roots and plants were starting to die. They are preparing for winter. But the water started turning a little brown from all the dead material. I was amazed how quickly the water started to dirty up.

Keep up what you are doing so far. For you having the temps you are having, you must be in a bit from the bay.
 
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Thanks RSFish,
I am actually in San Jose so right in Silicon valley but it does get hotter here than San Francisco.

I put in a little bit of food but they don't seem to want to come up to get it. Now, I am inside, I am hoping they get some. They do get pretty scared when I walk around the pond cause I can see them swimming peacefully and as soon as I come close, they will dive deeper.
They seem to be moving nicely under the surface probably 6-12" inches deep, so I don't think they are unwell.

I tried to catch the one black/orange I could see but it keeps getting away. So no pictures. I will post a picture of my water hyacinth to ask the folks if it is due to rotting or have the fish eaten them.

I added about 150-200 gallons of water since some had evaporated. Nitrites still showing stress. All else is normal.
 
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Real easy to check the water hyacinth to see if the fish are eating them. Which I have never known a Koi not to. LOL How long are the roots? Any white roots? my guess is that they are very short and 98% black. Koi love hyacinth roots. I keep my pond with hundreds of them just for the fish and the filtration they provide. They are great at cleaning the water and giving the Koi plenty to eat on.
The fish will definitelt be spooked if you tried to net someone. It will take a few days.
Just also out of curiosity, what type of food are you feeding?
 
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Most roots are short and black about 3-4", a few are longer about 6". I had a bunch of bulbs that were squashed (almost like someone took a bite of them) and rotting, dont know if thats done by koi. A few of the hyacinths have a few strands of white roots.

I am feeding Kaytee's premium fish food from Petco.
 
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Two posts of pictures attached. FIrst one:

1. Showing pond picture from a distance with a fence to prevent my 18 month getting in there.
2. Bio filter with the water hyacinths I took from the pond.
3. White PVC is the water from the pump going to the bio filter. Black PVC is temporary water coming back to the pond. Typically this flows over the waterfall which I have disconnected to plug my UV Clarigfier which arrives today.
4. Water quality without UV. 5 weeks in to the pond.

Next set of pictures will of the hyacinths.
 

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Close up of the hyacinth pictures.
Check out how they are rotting. Is that koi eating them or what?
 

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My hyacinths will look that way as they go along also. I wish my roots were that big on mine. LOL The Koi keep them an inch or shorter most of the time. just pull off the dead parts of the hyacinths and put them back in. Koi usually only eat the roots. But I guess they could nip at the floater parts. Squirrels and chipmunks will get on the edge of my ponds and pull the hyacinths to the side to eat on. They will eat about all parts of the hyacinth.
That sure is some green water. Wow. I am guessing you had a nitrate spike and possibly some other stuff happen as your pond matured. It takes a couple of months for a pond to mature and cycle. Many times it is good to start out with fish you do not mind losing for this reason. The water parameters can fluctuate wildly during this time. Trust me. I lost a lot of nice fish the first couple of months.
The UV will sure help the green algae. But continue to be vigilant. The now dead green algae will be filling up the filters and is just like having a bunch of dead plants in your pond.
Isn't this hobby a blast?!? You probably thought the hard part was done when you finished building the pond. LOL
 
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Hahaha.
I am going to go and nip the dead parts and start putting them back in the pond. I have a net on my pond so I don't think squirrels can get to the plants.

I have done 2 50% water changes already, one time the bio filter overflowed and second time to cut the nitrites. The levels are still high, but the fish seem to be okay so far. Guess the heat is making the water greener and greener. I still don't understand why the nitrites are high though - atleast they are not spiking, Will the rotting cause high nitrites?

My wife is already complainng that I look more at the fish than at my 18 month old. :)
 

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