Lily Pads getting brownish/black spots that progress

Discussion in 'Garden Pond Talk' started by MoonShadows, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. MoonShadows

    moby

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    Water lily leaf spot? No, I'm not joking either, as it seems to be a disease that has similar effects to what your leaves are experiencing...according to what I've read anyway.
     
    moby, Aug 11, 2017
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  2. MoonShadows

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    How much new damage was there?
     
    Meyer Jordan, Aug 11, 2017
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    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    .

    @Meyer Jordan, you forgot about Bt! The damage that @MoonShadows has doesn't look like the damage caused by the China Mark caterpillar, but Bt [Bacillus thuringuiensis] might work. It isn't an insecticide, but a natural bacteria. If I'm not mistaken, it might be an ingredient in Pond Dunks.


    China Mark Moth

    [​IMG]

    This small nondescript brown moth is the water lily’s major pest and is also called the Sandwich Man. It is nocturnal and lays eggs on the underside of floating leaves. After hatching, the larva cuts leaf pieces to make protective sandwiches. They affect water lilies, although the larva also burrows into any floating leaves or debris. They have a two week cycle, so keep a close check for them throughout the growing season.

    The mechanical control method, better known as squishing, works well to control an initial outbreak – fish just love the worms. Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt), a natural bacteria, can be used as a spray. Once ingested, it kills the larva but won’t hurt people, pets, or fish. It is the active ingredient in Dipel, Insecticidal Soaps, and Thuricide. As with many sprays, it is best applied at the end of the day (see sidebar). If there is a severe infestation, the best remedy is to remove all affected foliage close to the crown of the plant and destroy it.
     
    Mmathis, Aug 11, 2017
    #23
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  4. MoonShadows

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    You are right! I had forgotten about BT. It could work if one's timing is good (applying while damage is occurring).
    There are many specie of moth other than the China Mark Moth that could have caused this damage.
    The black spots and yellowing could be caused by several different vectors.
    What is important here is that this plant has been severely weakened opening it up to myriad diseases and insect damage. If the source of this weakening is not identified and corrected, there is no way to save this plant.
    Plants, incidentally, have immune systems. Though they do not perform the exact same way as animal immune systems they do, however, exist. When a fish's immune system is compromised and weakened, it is then subject to the assorted health issues often discussed on the Forum. The same applies to plants. When placed under sufficient stress, the plant's immune system is severely weakened and the ability to fend off disease or insect damage is lost.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Aug 11, 2017
    #24
  5. MoonShadows

    MoonShadows The Jam Man

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    None since yesterday. I had removed all the bad leaves yesterday afternoon.
     
    MoonShadows, Aug 11, 2017
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  6. MoonShadows

    MoonShadows The Jam Man

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    Never saw anything that looks like that pic on the leaves either.

    What I am describing almost starts off looking like a black mold or mildew spot...multiples, spots begin to connect and then the leaf weakens and it starts to shred or disintegrate.
     
    MoonShadows, Aug 11, 2017
    #26
  7. MoonShadows

    MoonShadows The Jam Man

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    What an education I am getting. I never knew plants had an immune system.

    Is BT an abbreviation for a chemical name or something? And, where can I get it? Might not be a bad idea to try it even though I have not witnessed any bugs at all. As I mentioned in my last post, on each leaf that it starts on, it almost starts off looking like a black mold or mildew spot...multiples, spots begin to connect and then the leaf weakens and it starts to shred or disintegrate.
     
    MoonShadows, Aug 11, 2017
    #27
  8. MoonShadows

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    It was in my post, #23, above: Bt [Bacillus thuringuiensis]
     
    Mmathis, Aug 11, 2017
    #28
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  9. MoonShadows

    MoonShadows The Jam Man

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    Thanks! Is this something I can buy at a nursery, big box store or pond store?
     
    MoonShadows, Aug 11, 2017
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  10. MoonShadows

    MoonShadows The Jam Man

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    OK...I may have spoken too soon. I went outside after posting a few comments in this thread this afternoon and noticed 1 (of my 8 remaining leaves) has a few yellowish/brown spots. Perhaps that the way the others started, and I wasn't paying close enough attention. I will document this leaf over the next few days so we can see if it progresses to brown/black spots.

    Tomorrow, I am going to go to the nursery where I bought this lily and look in the pond from which I selected this lily to see if any of theirs are the same as mine.

    On a positive note...I think...I am seeing a second flower bud starting to form under the water. I would imagine the plant can't be too stressed if it is producing another flower bud....or could I be wrong?
    100_0066.jpg
     
    MoonShadows, Aug 11, 2017
    #30
  11. MoonShadows

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Any plant needs to produce energy to sustain growth and support flowering. Any unnatural loss of foliage will reduce the amount of energy available. I have seen similar situations where the plant will produce buds only to have these buds either fall off the plant or die as a waterlily bud will do. They literally rot on the plant turning into mush.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Aug 11, 2017
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  12. MoonShadows

    MoonShadows The Jam Man

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    So, what you are saying is, if my lily has lost enough foliage to be unable to produce the energy needed, this bud will most likely not mature into a flower and may die or drop off before it ever breaks the water's surface. OK. Good to know. Let me watch it and continue to document the saga of this leaf I posted. @Meyer Jordan I so much appreciate your feedback and help as I do from other members as well! Thank you all.
     
    MoonShadows, Aug 11, 2017
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  13. MoonShadows

    MoonShadows The Jam Man

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    MoonShadows, Aug 12, 2017
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    DutchMuch Lord Of The Aquascapes!

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    Personally, this is my conclusion. I think, that somehow, water is getting on those pads, despite you saying that hasn't happened.
    I agree with @moby.
     
    DutchMuch, Aug 12, 2017
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  15. MoonShadows

    MoonShadows The Jam Man

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    @DutchMuch In the same post you say it's water getting on the leaves AND you agree with @moby that it seems to be a disease. I can assure you it is NOT water spots. If it is a disease, someone must have seen this before, and it is the same problem that @vestaviascott is experiencing in his thread that I already referenced.
     
    MoonShadows, Aug 12, 2017
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  16. MoonShadows

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Meyer Jordan, Aug 12, 2017
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  17. MoonShadows

    MoonShadows The Jam Man

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    Thanks @Meyer Jordan but that reference does not shed any light on my problem.
     
    MoonShadows, Aug 12, 2017
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  18. MoonShadows

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Leaf spot is typically a fungus infection, however sometimes it can be caused when transplanting a waterlily tuber too deep. This encourages crown rot. Yellowing, spotted leaves are a sign of this issue.
    If this is just a fungal infection, your options are limited-
    -remove the diseased foliage as already advised.
    -treat with a Copper-based fungicide (only if you have no fish)
    -remove infected plant. If problem reoccurs on other waterlilies then the entire pond will require disinfection with a Chorine solution.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Aug 12, 2017
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  19. MoonShadows

    MoonShadows The Jam Man

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    MoonShadows, Aug 13, 2017
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  20. MoonShadows

    Lisak1

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    I don't have this problem on my lily leaves, but I have noted a LOT more fungal issues in my vegetable garden this year. My cucumber leaves are covered in fungal spots, but the plants are still flowering and producing fruit, so I just keep cutting off the diseased leaves. I think the extreme rainfall in July is to blame for a lot of the fungal, mildew, etc in my area this year - not sure if that's the case for you @MoonShadows .

    If it's any consolation, most varieties of waterlilies are generally very hardy. If the problem is only affecting the leaves and not the tuber, the plant will survive. I had some tubers that I was trying to re-home last year so I had them in a shallow pan with some water. I ignored them for too long and the water dried up and they sat there for probably a week or more - I thought they were goners. It rained and the pan filled up - the tubers sprouted. I tossed them in our neighborhood pond and this year they are growing and blooming LIKE CRAZY. (Better than the ones in my pond! haha!) Long story short - they are tough to kill!
     
    Lisak1, Aug 13, 2017
    #40
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