New Pond build - London, UK - Tips Please

[Geo90]

Thanks guys.

Ideally i'd like not to have to clean out the gravel/rocks for at least a few years and if the water parameters are good then I wonder exactly when the time is you'd decide to do a clean to remove "all those toxic gases that will kill your fish".

I'm just trying to figure out if the argument is really superficial i.e it doesn't really matter. I'm only going to be feeding lightly i.e once a day max in spring/summer and not too much. I am guessing on a bare liner things will also accumulate. I'm not interested in growing Koi to maximum sizes/weights. The liner will get covered with Algae anyway. Rocks would look nicer. I've just got to decide if there really is a filtration benefit and no downsides apart from potential cleaning.

 

[Lisak1]

I'm trying to find it. Do you have a link or the date of the podcast

It was an oldie - from like December 2014. Check BlogTalk radio or iTunes for the Pond Hunter.

 

[IPA]

It was an oldie - from like December 2014. Check BlogTalk radio or iTunes for the Pond Hunter.

Thanks, it's on iTunes; I kind of forgot that existed, HaHa.

 

[Lisak1]

Thanks, it's on iTunes; I kind of forgot that existed, HaHa.

I do wish people would shorten up their podcasts - under 30 minutes would be better than an hour and 15. It's just too big of a time commitment!

 

[Tula]

Thanks guys.

Ideally i'd like not to have to clean out the gravel/rocks for at least a few years and if the water parameters are good then I wonder exactly when the time is you'd decide to do a clean to remove "all those toxic gases that will kill your fish".

I'm just trying to figure out if the argument is really superficial i.e it doesn't really matter. I'm only going to be feeding lightly i.e once a day max in spring/summer and not too much. I am guessing on a bare liner things will also accumulate. I'm not interested in growing Koi to maximum sizes/weights. The liner will get covered with Algae anyway. Rocks would look nicer. I've just got to decide if there really is a filtration benefit and no downsides apart from potential cleaning.

I do think there are filtration benefits to having gravel and it is easier to walk on. I think if you keep your lilies potted and make sure the gravel doesn't slip and fill in the deeper areas of your pond, you'll be fine

 

[cas]

Ideally i'd like not to have to clean out the gravel/rocks for at least a few years and if the water parameters are good then I wonder exactly when the time is you'd decide to do a clean to remove "all those toxic gases that will kill your fish".

I have had my 1,000 gallon pond 13 years and have never drained my pond to clean it. In the spring and fall I use a pond vacuum to clean the bottom of the pond. If your fish load is small enough, the pond really does take care of itself.

 

[Geo90]

I have had my 1,000 gallon pond 13 years and have never drained my pond to clean it. In the spring and fall I use a pond vacuum to clean the bottom of the pond. If your fish load is small enough, the pond really does take care of itself.

Thanks. Well, I guess if it's bare liner I can vacuum but it would be impossible with gravel/pebbles/rocks.

Well, before my renovations a Heron came along and reduced my load considerably. I handpicked 4 6 to 8 inch Koi and I bought a bulk set of 30 two to four inch ones because it was cheaper and I thought I could see how it they developed...keep 10 or so and move the rest on. Heron took half the little ones and one Kohaku Koi so now I'm left with three 6-8 inches and 15 2-4 inches. Even with the total amount before the Heron, the pond looked really big for the fish however at an estimate I'd say 8-10 or so bigger Koi would probably be the limit considering the size.

 

[cas]

Well, I guess if it's bare liner I can vacuum but it would be impossible with gravel/pebbles/rocks.

Hard, but not impossible. For the first 10 years I had gravel on the bottom of the pond. It was a pain, so I did end up removing the gravel.

 

[Geo90]

Yeah, I think I'm just going to go bare liner apart from rocks on the top shelf and the edging obviously.

Out digging again this morning. The place were I originally wanted to be the deeper area, I couldn't go any deeper than about 20 inches because I hit very wet clay. It was like quicksand, full of water so I put some sand over the top. Then the next part of the pond I wanted to go deeper, I hit some sort of concrete path that found itself about 20 inches underground which was probably a walkway or path over 50 years ago, and the new part I wanted to go deeper I hit a tree root that must have been at least 10 inches in diameter. So the deepest part is only about 2.5 feet however with pretty mild winters, I need to account for the Heron. I've got an Owl decoy and will also string fishing line around the pond. The rock work is going to be pretty extensive and it's quite a reach from the edge to the deepest part of the water. I just hope it doesn't use the rocks on the edge and then the top shelf as a step and lean into the pond that way! I've also dug out a couple of tunnels/shelters in the shelving and I'm going to put a paving stone over the top so they can go under that if needed!

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome! First of all, be sure you aren't overstocked! That's were a lot of folks get into trouble. Once you get to a point where your filtration system can't handle the demands of your fish.....trouble starts.

I'm not going to join the debate over what should and shouldn't go on the bottom of the pond...... But I will say that I disagree with those who say you have to drain and clean [scrub] your pond regularly. You have a lot of benefical organisms that colonize on the pond liner, on rocks, etc. Those organisms help to keep your pond healthy. Only a pond-purist would want to remove that, but then, those are the people who heavily invest in massive filtration systems [and by invest, I mean time as well as money].

 

[sissy]

Gravel on the bottom gets slippery also when it gets muck on it .All the fish and taddies love the good muck growing .I would never want the work of cleaning a pond and the stress it puts on the fish .The older they get the worse it is for them .I just did not want to cut my liner for a drain .To me it was not worth the risk .I have enough problems with the liner being destroyed by outside sources .To me a bottom drain just causes death when it comes to baby fish and taddies

 

[Geo90]

So change of heart. Listened to that podcast, and I feel without really top end filtration equipment and a bottom drain, a rock bottom really wouldn't hurt also with a decent amount of plants as well.....I'm not going to go crazy with it. I've got some extra 3/4-1 inch limestone gravel chippings that was originally going to around the outside but now I'm made the pond bigger I don't need as much. First layer to cover the line of limestone chippings, then I'm going to spread some bigger pebbles around and then some river rock boulders on some of the submerged shelves and to cover some of the walls and then my limestone sand coloured rocks I've got for the top shelf and the border.

 

[moby]

Make sure you wash the chippings thoroughly before adding them as the powdery coating will alter the pond waters pH value. It may also keep the pH level altered for some time afterwards too.

 

[Geo90]

Make sure you wash the chippings thoroughly before adding them as the powdery coating will alter the pond waters pH value. It may also keep the pH level altered for some time afterwards too.

Thanks. Yeah, just stuck the stones in yesterday. Quite a thin layer, enough to cover the line but not enough to dig your foot in and down. Must be under an inch of covering with some larger pebbles river rocks scattered about. Gonna wash them in the pond i.e wash, fill up and drain a couple of times.

 

[Geo90]

So, I put the rocks on the shelves, put the thin layer of stones down with some larger cobbles/pebbles/river rock. Cleaned/filled and then pumped the water out this morning. When I first looked at the water level, it was lower by a couple of inches than when I left it last night. During the dig, I hit very wet waterlogged clay in one area at about 18", so wet that I couldn't stand it in without sinking. It was a dry spell as well. I proceeded to put sand over the top and it dried like cement. Then the liner went in. Then the gravel/rocks.

After cleaning the gravel, filling and then draining this morning, I could only assume the water level had dropped last night because of settling etc, but also when I stepped into the drained pond, in the area I am talking about, my foot just sunk right down into the ground. Like the hole had filled up with water again in that specific area under the liner. The liner wasn't raised, it just looked and felt unstable/sunken when I stepped on it. The rocks weren't weighing it right down. It's hard to explain but the simple explanation is it just fell like water under the liner i.e I could press my foot down on the liner and the liner would squish around and go deeper. There hasn't been much rainfall and I drained the pond quite far away. Water wouldn't have got under the liner from the edges because the rocks are keeping it down. It must have come from underneath and around.

Now, with some rainfall projected for the next few days, I am unsure what to do. Do I just proceed as I planned, and refill with water with the hope that the water will hold that area down. I don't want an overflow or floating liner situation because the pond water level is quite high to the edges anyway. I've got heavy rocks on the shelves and edges. I don't particularly mind the liner going downwards, it's if it comes up when full with fish in it.

Hmmmm....