new pond rebuild

[mikem]

hello everyone, I am a new guy on the block i have a small preformed pond that i am taken out and making the existing hole deeper and wider any advice and ideas would be greatly appreciated i have posted picture of what i have and what i am up against.

 

[j.w]

mikem

What are your expectations for the new pond, size etc. and any things you'd like to add so we have an idea on how to help you

 

[addy1]

Welcome! At least you have a lot of rocks to use, looks like nice ones. It will help to know what you want like jw says, then go from there.

Think deep because you are in cold country.

 

[mikem]

Thanks for the warm welcome, i went out today and purchased a 10x15 45mil liner also bought the underlayment, the size of pond i would like is 6'x8'x30'' deep thats really all the room i have without taken sections of brick patio out, also thinking of shifting the waterfall to the right i'm not sure yet

 

[mikem]

according to what i am reading on this forum rocks are no good in the pond?, so should i only use a few just to hold the liner? i want to keep my fish in the pond during the winter my plan is to have one section of the pond at 30 inches deep and also use an air stone and a deicer as you can see from the pics i had this pond running last year with 7 fish all are healthy (brought them inside and put them in a 30 gallon tank with filter don't want to go through that again to much stress for them), the big blue bin on the left side is my second bio filter which works great i will be redoing it into a polypro tank which will be slighted buried on the top mound going into the waterfall with a drain for clean out, any thoughts or ideas? i have this week off and will be working on this rebuild i hope to have it completed in 3 to 4 days as i work on the rebuild i will post pics.

 

[addy1]

Most do not have rocks on the bottom of the pond, I have some very shallow 1 inch deep water or dry shelf around two edges of the pond, covered with rocks. The little fry hide there.

When you say a few to hold the liner, do you mean on the bottom? The water will keep it in place.

 

[j.w]

Most just put rocks around the top edge and like addy said it's nice to put a little shelf like a step a few inches deep just below the top of the pond to put either small or large or any size rocks. It also hides the liner better too :yikesu:

Can you see the lower rocks on the ledge and then the top rocks around the upper edge?

 

[addy1]

You can see the ledge across the pond the fry love to hide there. It is about 12 inches wide, the water no more than an inch, the liner comes up past the rocks, with more rocks on it. There are dry and wet areas on the ledge.

 

[mikem]

so rocks only around the edge and ledge, the person i bought the liner from said to put rocks and stones into the pond bottom and sides, but that did not sound right to much area for crap to grow, and he is the owner of a water garden. I am very glad i joined this forum with the help of you good people i will be able to save myself from making mistakes.

 

[fishin4cars]

according to what i am reading on this forum rocks are no good in the pond?, so should i only use a few just to hold the liner? i want to keep my fish in the pond during the winter my plan is to have one section of the pond at 30 inches deep and also use an air stone and a deicer as you can see from the pics i had this pond running last year with 7 fish all are healthy (brought them inside and put them in a 30 gallon tank with filter don't want to go through that again to much stress for them), the big blue bin on the left side is my second bio filter which works great i will be redoing it into a polypro tank which will be slighted buried on the top mound going into the waterfall with a drain for clean out, any thoughts or ideas? i have this week off and will be working on this rebuild i hope to have it completed in 3 to 4 days as i work on the rebuild i will post pics.

Mike, 30" deep may not be deep enough for you to over winter, 30" is not going to leave much for a thermal layer, If I'm reading and looking correctly you live in CT. If so your going to get a fairly thick layer of ice in the winter, 42" is the minimal I would recommend and more like 48' or deeper would even be better.( Does not need to be the whole bottom of the pond just one area that the fish can go and stay warm in the winter) Also you may find some folks that need rocks to hold the liner down, I'm one that needs them as when I get a heavy rain for several days my water table is very shallow and during heavy rains I have even seen the 25,000 gallon pool liner lift. But Rocks on the bottom do catch suspended muck that can cause some serios issues, I have to lift mine and blow out from under them a couple of times a year. No a big issues for me, but it could be for those that can't easily reach them in deeper water, my water is fairly shallow but I don't live where I get much ice, I wish it was deeper because I have far more seriuos issues with heat than ice and deeper would have been much better.

 

[mikem]

wouldn't the deicer take care of the ice? 42 inches seems a little excessive i know i live in a cold zone but from what i have read 30 to 36 in one area of the pond should be enough but i will bow down to your experience as i am new to this, the only problem i can see if i need to go min 42in is not having enough liner. 10x15 is what i purchased.

 

[addy1]

I have read many places 36 inches will do, what zone are you? We are 6b-7 my ice was 8 inches think mid winter. If you run a heater that will help, mine is too big to have a heater help. Deeper is better, but you already have your liner.

How did your fish do in the preformed over winter if you had any?

 

[fishin4cars]

Heater will only open the ice for gas exchange, If anything it actually allows the water to get colder not warmer as the thermal insulation of the ice is now open and the water will cool a little more. If you already have the liner and the pond is dug then I would lay out the liner and see if I had any extra to go a little deeper. I would far rather pull a liner at that point and go even one or two inches deeper if I had the extra liner. Remember it only needs a small area deeper, may take one or two tries to get the results you want. If you haven't already dug the whole make it slightly smaller in width and add to the depth.
The more shallow the pond the deeper the ice can form, a 4 foot deep pond may get 8" of ice where a 30" deep may get 12" of ice. This is why deeper is better and also what the thermal layers do as the deeper the pond is the more thermal area is left for the fish to swim and stay hibernation in during those long cold winters.

 

[sissy]

I was going to say the same thing fishin 30 inches no way .I had the same preformed pond and it was hard to keep it unfrozen even here in VA and 30 inches for your area is not near deep enough .Most think of a footing for a deck if the tell you to dig 48 inches for your footings they are telling you that for a reason and deeper is always better after last winter whats in store this coming winter .True heat is the same thing no fish fries .Mine starts at 2 feet deep and goes down to 4 feet deep

 

[addy1]

Was one of the reasons, my hot arizona pond is 5 feet deep, my cold maryland pond is 5 feet deep, to give the fish a chance. I don't pull them in for the winter. But if you read pond building sites a lot say 36 inches works, I would not stick with 36 inches.