Open to suggestions

[shane in bama]

Ok where do I start? I had a small preformed pond and decided to go larger. I have A 25 x 30 liner and have a hole, will include pics, was trying to do everything i could DIY to save $ but am having second thoughts......just do it right the first time and be done with it although the wife isn't going to be happy. I started back in summer and got busy with work and now it rains everytime it starts to get dry. I will try to upload pics to start and we will go from there. The narrow area is for a bridge that we were wanting and 4 blue flags were where i had planned for skimmer. Also I was planning on a skippy style filter which was going to be the stream, or beginning. I had already purchased a 3600 gph pump and way i had measured was looking azt around 7000 gals but now thinking i may go back and make all of pond $4 ft deep. Also was planning on lining the liner with rocks but based on whaty i have read may reconsider.

 

[taherrmann4]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[sissy]

welcome to the forum and nice to go bigger but I know my pond is 4 ft' deep and wish i had gone deeper as it heats up in the summer but was limited to depth by my liner .My pond is mostly in sun .I can see you have a large tree for shade but the leaves may be a problem and see you have a pool and hope that you never have problems with it .Seems like you are limited to where to put it .I 'm guessing you have no predators since you have plant shelves .You will want a good underlayment .Nice figure 8 pond and neat dig you did .Nice you will be able to enjoy it from your deck and see you are thinking of a bridge or is it going to be more like an observation dock .Make sure you have place to hide your filter .

 

[j.w]

shane

 

[addy1]

You can do it right by doing a lot of diy stuff. Do you have herons in alabama? if you do get rid of the plant shelves, have straight down sides to help the you with the heron fight.

Without plant shelves you will have more water for your fish too.

My plants sit on the bottom of the pond, the lilies like around 3 foot of depth. You can also put them on crates.

to the group

 

[shane in bama]

The only problem with room is that I already have this big hole in my yard, LOL other than that deck is not issue I have 30ft to go other way. I will get pictures but my real job is I am a Lineman therefore I have access to power poles so I am trying to create A beach theme for backyard and I have made a retaining wall out of power poles which is about 30 ft from pond. So with first few post I am not sure about herrons around here but I am pretty convinced to make whole pond 4ft deep.

 

[Waterbug]

I'm not a fan of plant shelves only because they serve no purpose. First you put the plant pots on the shelves and then in a week, a month, or a year the raccoons tip them over and make a big mess. So the plants are removed and that's that. The predator thing...well I've certainly read that repeated often, never really understood the concept. A Great Blue Heron is more than happy to take a fish in flight or wade into 3' deep water. I've had raccoons jump into ponds and pin fish to the bottom 2.5' deep. They don't really need a plant shelf. They do like to look under pots for food though. That's been documented often.

Do you want plants? An alternative to shelves that I like is this type deal.

The plants are secured. There a probably some other threads on the subject. You can also search for "gravel bogs" which are another choice, or actually the same as the picture above just bigger.

I think there are 2 ways to build a first pond. One way is to read a lot. There are a bunch of pond forums with threads on first time pond builders with lots of details and the builder's experience from start to finish. I don't think there's a better way to learn.

The other way is to just plow forward and hope for the best. That's what I did and what I think most people do. Saying you're open to suggestions means you can get every possible option. But without experience you can't really figure out what's a good suggestion for your pond, the pond you want. And for sure you won't know how well all the different bits and pieces work together. You'll see that issue when you read a few threads on other peoples builds.

Here's a thread I just finished reading, took better than 3 hours. I don't think that forum is very good for water gardens but for general pond building there's a lot to learn there that can be applied. I don't think that thread has anything to do with your pond, but it does show the result of just plowing through. And the the builder in that thread is in your state.

 

[Waterbug]

Empty

 

[addy1]

I watched, filmed, observed the herons coming to my pond for over two months. They land and walk up to the pond, they usually land over 50 feet away and spend 15-20 minutes walking up. I never had one fly in, try to grab a fish and fly out, but not saying they would not do that. I did have one land, walk around the pond for 1/2 hour then fly over the chicken wire fence and plop into the pond, its feet got tangled in the fishing line, the plop sent all the fish diving deep (5 feet). Mine is big enough to allow that. They need room to make the landing.

The majority of the heron landings had them walking around the pond, circling for a hour plus. The alligators floating seemed to scare them. The 2 foot chicken wire I put where they could walk in kept them from walking into the water to fish. None tried to fly in and land in the water.

I did put a piece of deer fencing over the water when we left town, so if they decided to try and fly in they would not be able to, but the herons did circle the pond even then. They would then leave and go eat bugs out in the yard.

This was its favorite place to land and walk in through the gate. The heron is to the left of the bird house, wings spread as it landed.

Racoons, we have tons, they have never bothered the pond or fish.

= So with first few post I am not sure about herrons around here but I am pretty convinced to make whole pond 4ft deep.

The added depth will help keep your fish, warmer and cooler dependent on the season. My arizona pond was 5 feet deep, the water stayed around 85 in the summer. My maryland pond is 5 feet deep, the fish have some warmer than ice water to stay in during the winter.

 

[sissy]

The poles you are talking about are they not treated with toxic chemicals that if they got in your pond could kill fish and cause real problems with water quality .I understand why you want to use them for that beach theme .I understand they are 30ft away but heavy rains will wash the chemical all over .I know poles here are chemical treated because my neighbor works for Danville electric and he will not even touch his baby or hold her until he changes his clothes and washes up after work

 

[shane in bama]

The ones I used, that we use at work are treated with salt somehow. But they are a food bit lower than the pond. I tried to remember that when grading my yard down for this project.

 

[ididntdoit99]

I watched, filmed, observed the herons coming to my pond for over two months. They land and walk up to the pond, they usually land over 50 feet away and spend 15-20 minutes walking up. I never had one fly in, try to grab a fish and fly out, but not saying they would not do that.

I could MAYBE see one swooping in on a pond your size and grabbing a fish without landing. But you have too many things in the way for them to do that. I'm not sure what waterbug is referring to in his post, most of us don't have ponds big enough for a heron simply to swoop down in that small span of 10-15 feet, and grab a fish without landing. They'd surely faceplant in to the side of the pond, or the landscaping near the pond.

Also, question for waterbug, whats the difference between your picture and a plant shelf? My plant shelf is pretty much the same shape as what you have drawn, only without wood and blocks... i shaped my plant shelf that way with dirt under the liner. No plants falling over, and no need for all of that extra cost of building materials. I do have very sandy soil here, so shaping my pond isn't difficult.

Also, i did learn the hard way a few weeks ago, that there are many more predators around than i would have imagined, my neighbors new golden lab decided that my pond was a fun place to play, and that a fold in my liner looks like a nice chew toy. since I DO have a plant shelf, and the plants are no longer in it during the winter, he had a nice place to stand and chew a hole right thru my pond liner. So it looks like I get to replace my liner in the spring (which gives me a good excuse to expand) and put some fence around my pond. Which i never wanted to do because I will no longer be able to look across the yard and see my pond, but apparently that is the only way to ensure my pond will not be tampered with in the future. I wish the neighbor would just control his dog so i didn't have to put a fence up, but that day I drug the dog over to the neighbors house and gave him a good talking to about his dog running loose in the neighborhood and wrecking my pond, but the next day i saw him dragging his dog from my pond again, so i guess a fence is the only way i can be sure he cant get in.

 

[koiguy1969]

this isnt to say it never happens...but,I have never seen or even heard of a GBH taking prey in flight either ...i watch them in the creek by my house frequently, pretty much daily during the summer months. and as addy says they usually wont land closer than 10' - 15' from the ponds edge. they are by nature ambush preditors. sneaking up as close as possible and standing motionless for up to 5 minutes or more until prey wanders within striking distance. just go to youtube and watch the probably 50+ videos as well,always the same... this seems to be the case for cranes and egrets as well.

 

[addy1]

ididntdoit, put up some deer fencing, or the chicken wire with the wider holes, you don't really see it and can still see the pond well. I don't recall if your cute av was your child or a grand child, if no kids there all the time put up a electric fence, one or two good shocks and you will be able to turn it off. The dog will learn pretty fast not to do that. I had one around my garden long time ago, my pups got shocked twice and never went near that piece of wire again. I turned it off after three days. During the brief training i kept the grass nice and wet................and even shocked myself once, thought I had flipped it off.

Our pond is around 10-20 foot wide, depending on which end you are at, the heron that did fly in barely made it, he slammed into the other side, they need glide space to land well. This one landed in the pond at the far edge, I had fishing line over the top, it snagged the herons feet pulling it backwards. In all the months I had the heron visiting it only flew in the one time, and that was after it had spent an hour walking up to and around the pond

 

[sissy]

I don't know about herons but sure know about dogs as my new neighbors dog destroyed my liner this past summer as he got in and I guess could not get out to well and his claws slit the liner and I had to work fast to get the fish out into my large storage tank and not stress them out and get the new liner in .Well those neighbors did not last long as I saw them moving out already .Not sure why so fast but kinda happy puppies gone .Now I have to worry about the neighbors down from me as they got 2 puppies and I have already chased them away 3 times and these people don't know english .So monday I will call dog control officer I know to go speak to them since she knows spanish .I know predators come in all sizes and forms .I have a one eyed owl that made his nest in the woods behind my house and did not know it until yesterday as I saw him setting in a tree looking at my back yard as the dogs were out side .The back yard is fenced for my dogs .I think he was eyeing up my fat chihuahua .ooops pleasingly plump chihuahua .