ph on the rise?

[richyd]

my tetra water testing kit arrived yesterday, and i've begun checking parameters.
Nitrates are zero
Amonia is zero
and my ph has continued to rise. Its now reading 8.4. I've nailed this down to the cement I used in the water fall. I let it all cure correctly but was unaware it needed to be sealed. So lime is leaching into my pond. (i will deal with this next weekend)

my tap water is 7.6 so decided to do a 20% water change (not sure if this is the correct way to reduce ph, still newbie). But I want to avoid putting chemicals in the pond that reduce ph. Heard these products can kill the fish quite easily. Most of my fish are goldfish/comets/shubunkins. But I also have 3 ghost koi (these are the ones i'm worried about as I heard they can't tolerate ph changes easily)

I will check the ph again tomorrow now, and hopefully it has reduced slightly. Am I going about this the right way?

 

[sissy]

I keep my ph at a steady 9 and use crushed oyster shells to keep it there .After a heavy rain it lowers for awhile but comes back up fast .

 

[richyd]

I keep my ph at a steady 9 and use crushed oyster shells to keep it there .After a heavy rain it lowers for awhile but comes back up fast .

Yes I heard about oyster shells. Do you just throw them in?
Also isnt 9 a high Ph reading? I'm reading fish can survive between 6-9.

 

[sissy]

No I put them in fine mesh bags and put them in flowing water in the water fall and in the filters .Goldfish are not so fussy about ph and my koi seem to like around 8 or 9 .Mine has stayed at a steady 9 for over 4 years now and i have not lost a fish yet .If you keep it stable they like it better ,instead of up and down .

 

[sissy]

If I see them with a back back on i know they are running away from home :razz: :razz: :goldfish: :goldfish:

 

[richyd]

No I put them in fine mesh bags and put them in flowing water in the water fall and in the filters .Goldfish are not so fussy about ph and my koi seem to like around 8 or 9 .Mine has stayed at a steady 9 for over 4 years now and i have not lost a fish yet .If you keep it stable they like it better ,instead of up and down .

Thanks for the advice Sissy

 

[richyd]

If I see them with a back back on i know they are running away from home :razz: :razz: :goldfish: :goldfish:

lol :razz:

 

[crsublette]

Sounds like you're going right richyd.

For more info, I found a good'n, Looking for good Concrete Pond Sealer

Plants and algae can also cause a change in pH from excreting CO2.

Test your pH twice a day. Once in the morning and once in the late afternoon. If there is more than a .5 pH swing, then this is stressing your fish. Ya won't necessarily see it until they start getting sick, which could be much further down the road.

Just make sure you are right about the pH readings. pH testers can be contaminated. Some pet stores can test water for ya also. I always have multiple pH tests I do, one liquid from API and one from a Milwaukee pH electronic tester.

I understand the ideal pH is 7.8~8.3 pH; from my skimming, this is what journal articles mention in regard to beneficial bacteria efficiency, etc. Fish will do fine in a 6.5~10 ph, it is the big swings that stress their immune system.

 

[fishin4cars]

PH of 8.4 is perfectly fine. Koi can handle that with ease. the lime leaking may or may not be the source of the PH climb. chemicals, rain water, rocks, plants, algae, fish waste, all can and do effect PH. personally from all the reading I have done unless your needing to seal the entire pond and plan on starting completely over I really wouldn't bother with sealing. Algaes, micro organisms, etc. will naturally seal the mortar for the most part. I would however check your GH and KH hardness. This will tell you more about what is needed to be done. hardness or buffering is what allows PH to fluctuate. oyster shells raise the hardness therefore buffering the water.

 

[crsublette]

If tap water is 7.6 and you're doing 20% water changes and your pond pH is still 8.4 ... there is something constantly going into the water to cause this swing, it could be: 1) high CO2 from plants and algae or; 2) chemical regularly running off into water or; 3) something else leaching into the water or; 4) high volume of plant decay or; 6) the pH test reading are not accurate.

Ponds naturally became softer from the nitrification processing fish waste, not harder due to the nitric acid. Also, rainfall should make your water softer, not harder, unless your tap water is extremely soft to begin unless your rainfall is in the 8 pH range, which is unheard of around the states here so might be different in the UK.

A 7.6 tap water to a 8.4 pond water is a .8 pH swing. If you're confident these pH readings are accurate, then I'd be careful with the water changes unless you are doing a very slow water change, such as a trickle from landscape drip emitters.

My understanding is that pH swing are allowed to occur due to inadequate pH buffering from KH (for pH low end) or GH (for pH high end). Richyd, ya should get a KH/GH tester such as a kit from API if ya are really interested in getting the pH swing fix; this could be the problem.

 

[richyd]

If tap water is 7.6 and you're doing 20% water changes and your pond pH is still 8.4 ... there is something constantly going into the water to cause this swing, it could be: 1) high CO2 from plants and algae or; 2) chemical regularly running off into water or; 3) something else leaching into the water or; 4) high volume of plant decay or; 6) the pH test reading are not accurate.

Ponds naturally became softer from the nitrification processing fish waste, not harder due to the nitric acid. Also, rainfall should make your water softer, not harder, unless your tap water is extremely soft to begin unless your rainfall is in the 8 pH range, which is unheard of around the states here so might be different in the UK.

A 7.6 tap water to a 8.4 pond water is a .8 pH swing. If you're confident these pH readings are accurate, then I'd be careful with the water changes unless you are doing a very slow water change, such as a trickle from landscape drip emitters.

My understanding is that pH swing are allowed to occur due to inadequate pH buffering from KH (for pH low end) or GH (for pH high end). Richyd, ya should get a KH/GH tester such as a kit from API if ya are really interested in getting the pH swing fix; this could be the problem.

Thanks for the advice man, I will def look into this.

I checked the Ph at 7:30am this morning and it was between 7.5 and 8.0. Checked again at 8:00pm same day and it was between 8.0 - 8.5. I have a liquid test kit but its hard to distinguish the different colors between green and blue. I might invest in one of these electrical ph checkers, they must be more accurate

 

[crsublette]

I might invest in one of these electrical ph checkers, they must be more accurate

Do your research before you buy one.

The electrical checkers use special sensors and it is these sensors that cause the electrical checkers to create false readings. Normally, if it is a good electrical checker, then the checker's sensors should last for 6 months at least, assuming you properly store the electrical checker. The sensors on the good electronic checkers can be replaced with new sensors. However, these sensors tend to cost around $40 (us dollars, not for sure what it'd be in UK). So, if ya buy a electronic checker that is cheaper than the replacement sensors, then that particular electronic might fail ya sooner than others.

I've been using Milwaukee Martini pH56. I used to use an Oakton tester, but it started giving me wrong readings on me after a month or so. I kept using my liquid pH tester every once and a while just to make sure the electrical checker's sensor have not gone bad.

 

[richyd]

Just a quick update
I have since diverted our water flow so its not touching any of my water fall. And am currently in the process of treating the waterfall. also invested in an electrical ph checker.

We have had a lot of rain, and I checked the readings today, this morning and the afternoon. Morning was 7.6 and this afternoon exactly 8.0(electrical ph checker) . Liquid test showed between 7.5 and 8.0 (I find it hard to distinguish between colours)
Pretty happy with that tbh. Guess it was the lime leeching out of the cement/rocks. Also performed Nitrate and Ammonia tests, both came up zero. Unfortunately these are the only 3 parameters I can check for. But I guess its good enough for the time being. Fish seem happy and they are always hungry. 3-4 times a day I feed at this time of year.