Please help....

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Many thanx for your reply personally I would go out and buy a bottle of Malachite green the other bottle is probably a much weaker solution, I was rather hoping Charles would come in on this thread to see if he concurs with me but its all I have to offer its either that or the fishes immune system is going down which does happen from time to time.
Or this is the worst case of fungus I have ever seen , however I'll stick with Episylis for the time being, glad I was right about the mating process it may even point us in the right direction as to this koi's problem .
Do you know the ratio of males to females in your pond at the moment ?

rgrds

Dave
 
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No I do not know the number of females versus males. Originally I thought we had all males, because we never saw any spawning. This year was the first time and it was aggressive. We lost 4 fish, over the course of 2 weeks,which I believe were females and we lost from exhaustion or injury because they had 3 or 4 fish chasing them the day prior to them dying.

I have not had an opportunity to get to the pet store yet today, (really wish it was closer than an hour away) but I did raise the temperature on the tank last night, as suggested. I also put some salt in the water. This morning he was not very active and started clamping his fins. I tested and ammonia in the tank had made its way up to 1.0. So I did a 50% water change, bringing in water from the pond, since the levels are 0 in that water and turned the heater back on. (I let the tank water cool down first, so that there was not a major temperature difference). Within an hour he had started swimming around again and only had his fins clamped now and then. He's still agitated being in a small tank, but otherwise seems to have perked up from this morning. Also, I have noticed that some of the fungus/gunk is coming off his fins. I don't see any sores, cuts, etc. on the fins where the stuff is coming off, but I am wondering, should I add anything to the water to soothe, or protect, the areas in case they are irritated and I just can't see it?
 
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Koi 1.jpgKoi 2.jpgkoi 3.jpgJust a few pictures to show some of the changes/improvements I've seen. Not huge ones, but definitely noticeable when comparing shots. .

The only part that still worries me is he is still occasionally clamping his dorsal fin down. It will come back up for a bit and then he clamps it again. He hasn't done that until today, so that concerns me. I also did not do a salt dip, as he still seems really agitated and I didn't want to make it worse by taking him out putting him in the salt and then putting him back. I was concerned the stress might get to be too much, but maybe I'm wrong. The ammonia in the tank has spiked a few times, so I've done a few small water changes to help try to get it under control.

I'm hoping the signs I see are improvements and that this guy is on the mend. I feel horrible this happened to him and that he's miserable in the tank. So far, no other fish in the pond shows any signs of it, so keeping my fingers crossed, though I'm more attached to him than the others, which I think makes me worry even more.

~Ann
 

Mmathis

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Ann, I might be totally wrong, but if it was me I would go ahead and do the salt dip [be sure to have an airstone in the water with the fish]. Or do a salt bath, which lasts longer, but has a lower concentration of salt. He certainly can't be any more stressed than he is right now, and it might actually make him feel a little better. If nothing else, the agitation from the airstone might be soothing as well as help to debride his skin of the stuff.
 
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Thanks, I will try one in the morning. I'm getting ready for bed now, trying to get back into my 'school year' sleeping schedule (I'm a teacher). I'm praying he is doing better before I go back to work in a week...hate the thought of leaving him all day, especially if the ammonia keeps spiking.

Once again, thank you everyone who has given me suggestions. I can't thank you enough. In the 5 years we've had goldfish and koi this is the first major illness we've had and it's our luck that its a hard one to identify. I'm very happy I found this site with such helpful and friendly people.
 
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Well he certainly seems to be getting better watch the koi's tail as I note a tad of finrot in the top lobe of the tail.
I would however wait until all is cleared before you think of him going back in the pond with his fishy friends.
May I make a suggestion you go on line and buy the Interpet Manuel of koi Health wich is a useful tool to have at your disposal.
The other suggestion is buy a microscope or ask the Head Master/Mistress if you can borrow one from the science lab they are really worth their weight in gold .

rgrds

Dave
 
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I got a scare last night when I got up for a bit and noticed he was sitting on the bottom of the tank, all fins clamped. He was alive, but I wasn't sure for how much longer. When I woke up this morning, I was afraid to go and look, as I was sure he would be dead. I am happy to report he was swimming around and has even more of the stuff off of him.

Dave, the fin rot is what we originally noticed and took him into the Q-tank for. He was in a treatment of Jungle Fungus Clear for 2 days before I had to do a water change and whatever is on him showed itself. Do you think the fungus clear for 2 days was enough to treat itt? Or will the Malachite Green help with the fin rot too? I want to make sure he is 100% healthy

I never thought of asking our science teacher. We just got a new principal and science teacher, who are both unreachable until next week...but for future, or if this is still showing when I go in next week I am going to ask! Great suggestion!

~Ann

Edited to add: And thanks for the book suggestion. I have it saved on amazon and as next payday I am going to order one. I"m also going to see if I can find any other good koi or goldfish books on my Kindle.
 
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annmar414 said:
I got a scare last night when I got up for a bit and noticed he was sitting on the bottom of the tank, all fins clamped. He was alive, but I wasn't sure for how much longer. When I woke up this morning, I was afraid to go and look, as I was sure he would be dead. I am happy to report he was swimming around and has even more of the stuff off of him.

Dave, the fin rot is what we originally noticed and took him into the Q-tank for. He was in a treatment of Jungle Fungus Clear for 2 days before I had to do a water change and whatever is on him showed itself. Do you think the fungus clear for 2 days was enough to treat itt? Or will the Malachite Green help with the fin rot too? I want to make sure he is 100% healthy

I never thought of asking our science teacher. We just got a new principal and science teacher, who are both unreachable until next week...but for future, or if this is still showing when I go in next week I am going to ask! Great suggestion!

~Ann

Edited to add: And thanks for the book suggestion. I have it saved on amazon and as next payday I am going to order one. I"m also going to see if I can find any other good koi or goldfish books on my Kindle.
Ann It was the Malachite green that broke the back of this , now I'm trying to find out why this happened tell me how big is the Qt tank you have and at what dose did you give him the first treatment , I've a feeling all this was exessive mucus possibly brought on by the first treatment .
Dont worry no one will take offence as we all make mistakes, sometimes overdoses can and do happen and the results can be in some cases fatal.
I think this may well have been a severe reaction to the treatment you used first off ... .
Its pnly a theory that I'm putting through my brain at the moment its the only thing I can possibly make fit ?
May I suggest you get a lined book and split it up into sections , one for your water perameters, one for maintenance , on for water changes, and one for treatments .
I have records done in this way going back to when we first started after a while you'll buid up a picture of things and also treatments allowing you to go back to see what happened when you treated with such and such a chemical ehat happened and what were the results i;e did the fish effect a cure , die ,etc.
Before long Ann you;ll have a working knowledge of your pond and the fish in it here you can go back and check to see if things worked or didnt.if you see where I'm going with this ?

rgrds

Dave
 
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Thanks, Dave. I like the idea of the notebook...will have to start one for my indoor tank and my outdoor pond. My little guy is almost cleared up completely, except for a few small patches here and there on his body and a larger patch on his face where it was the worst.

The tank is 10 gallons. I used Jungle Fungus Clear, 1 tablet (the recommended amount for 10 gallons) when I first brought him in for the fin. Then when this stuff started showing on him, I did a 75% water change and put the carbon back in to take any left in the tank out in case that was what caused it. I couldn't find just malachite green at the store, it was mixed into a bunch of different formulas, a lot of the time with formalin. So I just used a few drops of the Wardley's that I had. Main ingredient is the malachite green and it said along with ich it treats a variety of fungus and external parasites. You can use a teaspoon for 10 gallons, but since I wasn't sure what we were dealing with I only used a few drops. (I tend to error on the side of caution with medication--when I was younger a pet store gave me the wrong dose of medication for my goldfish and it suffocated them and turned them blue, so now I worry). I also turned the heat up on the tank to about 78 and used salt dips/baths.

So now I just have to determine what to use to treat the fin rot so it starts healing and hopefully doesn't cause that stuff to show up on him again.
 
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I'm not conversant with Jungle cure or wardleys being in the UK we dont know those names I've asked Charles to look at this thread to see what he himself thinks .
In reality its dangerous mixing and matching various threatments together like that even though Malachite is the active ingrediant .
Personally I would buy a small bottle of Formalin and a small bottle of Malachite and store them in a dark place until you need them go for a major brand name, if you have NTLabs over there its the one we use.it ourselves .
Keep taking the photo's of this koi's turn around it'll be nice to know the outome.

rgrds

Dave.
 
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IMG_7072.JPGIMG_7097.JPGIMG_7096.JPGIMG_7094.JPGIMG_7079.JPGIMG_7072.JPGWell tonight he seems to be doing much better. A bit more active again and most of the stuff on him is gone, at least compared to the first day. Now to treat the fin rot. Also, I noticed there are a few places where his scales seem to be missing...I'm going to guess damage from the activity in the pond. Any thoughts on how to help heal this, or will it do it on its own?
 

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Ann the nissing scales will regenerate just make sure there are no breaks in the skin where infection could take a hold otherwise you have nothing to wrry about with the missing scales
I hope he is now well on the way to recovery from his brush with the grim reaper?


rgrds

Dave
 
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He is doing great. He is still in the Q-tank, treating him for the fin rot. Going to give him another day or so, doesn't seem to be red or have anything left, just the missing part of the fin, which if I read and understood correctly, he will regrow over time. I will post a picture of the healthier him later tonight. Hard to tell he's the same fish I originally posted pictures of. :) Thank you all for your help!!

We've spent the morning cleaning and doing a water change on our pond. Two of our newer koi where being chased and batted around by the other fish (in what we believe was attempted spawning though the new koi are too young to lay eggs) and both of them ended up with fungus on their sides where they were getting pushed against the side of the pond. So they are also being treated.

The only thing all 3 fish (the white one I started this thread for and the 2 new koi) had in common was that they were in the pond. The water levels all read great. So not sure what caused them to get the fungus and him to get the fin rot and then whatever the other infection was. So we decided to do another clean. Hopefully it helps. The other fish are all healthy and active, (keep my fingers crossed it stays that way). We do have an abundance of green algae in the pond this year, more so than we have ever had, so not sure if that could have caused the fungus or not.
 
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Photos of the miracle man before he goes back in the pond please Ann I'm amazed at his turn around its been great to watch .

rgrds

Dave
 

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