Pondless Waterfall Build Questions

[Lisak1]

t's going to be difficult making a pooling area flat in this case, since the slope is so steep I'd be afraid the dirt preceding the area would collapse

Every "step" of the waterfall needs to be created with rocks. You are literally carving the hillside to create spots to place rocks - there won't be anything to collapse, if that makes sense.

And you control the "outflow" of each pooling area by how big of an outlet you create. You can have a wide flat waterfall or a pinched off waterfall or several waterfalls, all coming out of one pool. You're the master of how that water flows. The pools should be built so they are literally holding water back until they are full enough to spill over to the next waterfall.

I'm not great at explaining things verbally, but just imagine how nature would carve that waterfall with water - pushing rocks ahead of the water, switching directions as it meets obstacles. There would literally NEVER be a case where the middle of the pool is higher than the edges. You might find that a rock placed in a pool will create interesting water flow, but that comes in the actual build process.

 

[msr0459]

Every "step" of the waterfall needs to be created with rocks. You are literally carving the hillside to create spots to place rocks - there won't be anything to collapse, if that makes sense.

And you control the "outflow" of each pooling area by how big of an outlet you create. You can have a wide flat waterfall or a pinched off waterfall or several waterfalls, all coming out of one pool. You're the master of how that water flows. The pools should be built so they are literally holding water back until they are full enough to spill over to the next waterfall.

I'm not great at explaining things verbally, but just imagine how nature would carve that waterfall with water - pushing rocks ahead of the water, switching directions as it meets obstacles. There would literally NEVER be a case where the middle of the pool is higher than the edges. You might find that a rock placed in a pool will create interesting water flow, but that comes in the actual build process.

It all makes sense. I had already been thinking of where to "throttle back", or "pinch" the flow with rocks. I'm just worried about the fact that after my guy with the excavator helps me place any large rocks, if I don't like the way the water flows I'm stuck with it. I'll only have him here for up to 6 hrs,..so yep, I'm over thinking like crazy! Lol

I'll go in and see just how much of a wall is created after I flatten out the pooling areas(orclose to flat), and that'll let me know how large of a stone(s) to place there. Hadn't thought of it that way, thanks!

Marc

 

[msr0459]

A quick tangent...are most basins roughly 2' deep? Deeper, like maybe 3', would hold the same water/blocks,.. and it would then have a smaller footprint, and thus a smaller liner I would need to purchase. The problem I see with deeper, is that the Aquascape pump vault ( which most use? ) would then sit down too far, way more difficult to access. Even with the extention it would be below the edge of the basin.

Is there a norm as far as depth?

 

[Lisak1]

Our vault is 6 feet deep - they make extensions.

 

[GBBUDD]

what size boulders are you talking of using and if you have those boulders already on site . take pictures of them all at least the big boys and we can help in that regard. The rocks speak, do not have a design in mind that's cemented in. As you build the boulders will tell you what works and what look natural.

so by the sounds of it you can cover the entire hill side with rubber so now it's time to create .

If you are thinking two pumps it can make your life less demanding with the falls. As any kind of debris or algae may block up your secondary stream intake. the answer could be to have them actually separate but it looks like they are one. and have the water fall to the common basin/ pump house.

can you take a pic of your back yard that will be looking at the falls to design imo how i'd make the falls. if you want the start to come out from under the deck or off to the right with the stairs what angle is looking at the area the most ?

 

[msr0459]

Our vault is 6 feet deep - they make extensions.

But how do you access the pump for maintenance if needed, that far down?

 

[GBBUDD]

rope and or the pipe coming up going out the back

 

[msr0459]

rope and or the pipe coming up going out the back

Ok then. But I thought the top of the vault needs to be just above water level, no?

 

[GBBUDD]

Ok then. But I thought the top of the vault needs to be just above water level, no?

on average yes but the snorkel can be placed in the center of the vault. and be much lower than water level if you really wanted too

 

[Lisak1]

Our pump is connected to a length of flex
PVC that, combined with the height of the pump, puts the pump just above the bottom of the vault when installed. To remove it we just unscrew the connection at the top and pull it up.

Our check valve by the way is part of the pump assembly - it’s just above the pump. So if we want the water to back flow to the basin we can remove the pump.

 

[msr0459]

You are literally carving the hillside to create spots to place rocks - there won't be anything to collapse, if that makes sense.

I'll be digging back into those pooling areas today, to flatten them out. Still not sure yet how tall of a dirt wall that'll leave as I go deeper into the slope. My guess is at least 2' or maybe more. My thought is, if I'm supposed to simply place a large bolder, or several of them there (against the wall) they'll stick out so far that it will interfere with the negative edge created.

Marc

 

[msr0459]

Our pump is connected to a length of flex
PVC that, combined with the height of the pump, puts the pump just above the bottom of the vault when installed. To remove it we just unscrew the connection at the top and pull it up.

Our check valve by the way is part of the pump assembly - it’s just above the pump. So if we want the water to back flow to the basin we can remove the pump.

Regarding the vault, I was posting about me needing to go 3' deep with basin, since the pump needs to be slightly lower that the blocks, (referring to the tutorials I've seen with the aquablox and Aquascape vault being 6" or whatever lower than the blox, with the vault sitting on the foot of the blox). Even with the extension on the vault (which is more money, ),.. the vault would be lower than the top edge of basin, making it difficult to access.

Are you referring to unscrewing the connection on the pump, or on the top of the vault?

And I thought the check valve was to keep the water from flowing back through the pump? Forgive me, I'm still a little confused.

 

[Lisak1]

I know your plan involves your friend with the machine, but setting rocks can be a tedious process of trial and error - especially when you’ve never done it. This is why these builds happen from the bottom up - adjusting for the rocks usually requires the liner to be pulled back and more digging to happen behind the liner to set the boulder properly. And frequently the first choice boulder is abandoned for another that just works better.

Exactly how big are your boulders? Maybe have your buddy set them CLOSE to where you think you want them but outside the actual waterfall and we can help with some tips on moving boulders that don’t involve a machine. We (me and my youngest son sometimes - others he and one or the other of his brothers) moved lots of two and three man boulders without a machine.

 

[Lisak1]

Regarding the vault, I was posting about me needing to go 3' deep with basin, since the pump needs to be slightly lower that the blocks, (referring to the tutorials I've seen with the aquablox and Aquascape vault being 6" or whatever lower than the blox, with the vault sitting on the foot of the blox). Even with the extension on the vault (which is more money, ),.. the vault would be lower than the top edge of basin, making it difficult to access.

Are you referring to unscrewing the connection on the pump, or on the top of the vault?

And I thought the check valve was to keep the water from flowing back through the pump? Forgive me, I'm still a little confused.

You can choose the depth of your vault - I was just saying you CAN go deeper if you want.

Our pump stays connected to the 3” flex PVC line. We have a screw on connection from the main line to the pump line that allows us to remove the whole pump assembly. I’ll see if I have a picture I can post.

And yes - the check valve keeps the water from back flowing through the pump. But if we disconnect the pump the check valve is removed from the line as well and the water can flow freely back to the basin.

 

[Lisak1]

Ok - here’s how the vault looks when the pump is removed

And here’s the whole pump assembly

Pump screws in to the bottom - check valve near the top.

We actually had this rebuilt because it was way too heavy. They replaced the check valve with a smaller one and got rid of all the extraneous parts. But essentially we drop it in the vault and connect at the top.