Pondless Waterfall Questions

[GBBUDD]

A little to direct of the area maybe. but heres some Brain food You want to have your patio area and or key rooms of the home looking out at the area the water falls definitely visible for all the above if possible.

Going from what i can see and i like larger features i believe there can't be too much water and or water in motion and the incredible soothing noise of a water fall and or stream. Even watching bubbles slide down the stream drop over a small falls can suck up hours of R n R Done right it can be a stay home vacation . what could be better then that

I'll go out on a limb and assume your property line is at the meeting of the two hedges. well it would be at that point that i would start the water fall or source of the water coming down the slope. Now you have a gradual slope and not a steep drop so i would probably go with some 3 foot boulders at the hedge line to make one drop so it looks like the water is coming out from the meeting of those two points . The nice thing about this drop is the large boulders we call character stones and can set the entire scene. The biggest mistake people make is to build on top of the grade and not cut into the grade. look at any stream it is not sitting on top of the grade it has cut it's way into the soil. Making the stream turn down your slope coming toward the picture and cutting the downhill side a little and making the uphill. You don't have to stick with pondless videos to get ideas. I understand your wanting to do a completely pondless but for my money if the water fell into a small pool thats the money shot You can do that by simply making a bib liner ontop of your pallets but you'll probably need very thick non woven fabric or azek sheets or fiberglass . you make the bib smaller then the cistern area and let the water fall over the edges and fall into the cistern / storage area. the main thing to keep in mind is to make little pools as the water comes down the stream so you stop a good deal of the water from needing to be held in a collection area as it can get pricey. look at the videos and come up with more questions and ideas

Some very impressive pond builds

https://whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TOMbsvXjX8 ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc36HtktJD0

www.gardenpondforum.com

 

[Swaptrex]

Thanks very much for the reply. I ordered a 6500 gph submersible instead of going to pool pump route. I actually sold both pumps yesterday. Now we can really only get variable speed due to a new DOE law.

With that size of a pump, how big of a basin should I go with to be on the safe side? I’m going to try to make 1-2 pooling areas but have to see how it goes. I may just go the aqua block route to make it as easy as possible due to my lack of free time. I have access to heavy equipment which should help. The problem I’m having is picturing the placement of rocks. I would think this would be easy for me, given my business, but maybe it isn’t just because it’s mine and I have a hard time with making it perfect whether it’s a job for me or a customer. I would imagine your first one is just a matter of placement and moving as necessary.

 

[combatwombat]

I would plan to have at least the same number of gallons in your basin as you are pumping per minute. That’s a minimum. In your case, that would be about 110.

Large aquablox holds 32 gal, so 4 blocks would do the trick.

Look forward to seeing this project come together.

 

[GBBUDD]

I would go larger then 4 as it works also as a reservoir for evaporation the more you have the less maintenance you have to do

 

[Swaptrex]

Hey guys, I’ve been busy with work, but plan on closing business for 2 weeks the end of December. Going to use that time to build the waterfall. I have roughly 200 rocks varying from boulders to slate, but always looking for more.

One question I have: my liner is 10x45, will the 10ft be enough for the basin (I doubt it). Do most get a separate liner for the basin and just overlap? I would imagine once I make my turns, etc, 45’ in length won’t be overkill. Also, do most use an underlayment as a piece of mind?

Now my plan is to somehow build it in the rear corner of the yard but having a hard time visualizing making it appearing natural since that area is flat.

 

[Swaptrex]

 

[combatwombat]

Couldn't say if 10' wide is enough for your basin. Have you calculated your basin size? From the dims you shared in your original post, rough estimate of water in motion is 140 gallons. So, you'll want your basin to be about 300 gallons.

Still using plastic pallets? How many do you have and what size?

Still using your 1 hp pool pump? I'd consider bumping up to a 3" line if you haven't bought your pipe yet.

As for building in a flat back yard... the higher you want it to go, the bigger and more spread out your berm needs to be. A natural looking berm is probably going to be about 5:1 (width:height). So if you want two feet of fall from spillway to basin, you'd want the berm around the spillway to be at least 10' wide. Anything less will start looking like an ant hill instead of a natural feature.

Maybe it's just the angle of the camera, but it looks like you have a bit of natural grade sloping towards your house to work with.

In a flat area, I'd personally go for more of a meandering creek look. Make it really long with a few very small falls and rapids. I'd want to start the flow as close to the edge of the property as possible so that it could be planted up to look like the creek originates somewhere else and flows onto your property.

 

[GBBUDD]

Pictures pictures and more pictures is how we can help the best and a little more description of what you see as a final product. Include pics of the rocks. Where you said you have boulders and slate I am praying the slate is for a patio and not shelves for the water to drop off from . At least that's not how I see a waterfall. I am more about a natural look more then the hokie off a flat rock type . Go to you tube and do a search for pondless water fall you'll see why I said what I did.

 

[GBBUDD]

10

Ten feet is very small for a berm trying to hide a 2 foot lift do the math more then likely your looking at 3 feet in width between the stream and its rock as a absolute minimum if not 4 to five feet wide . Now even if you put it at to one side 4 foot wide off to the one side can help hide the volcanoe look if a sfrub is planted at the end. Making the whole look closer to 7 to 8 feet wide on one side . Surf your tube look at Atlantis water gardens team aquascapes and aquatic design with John adams

 

[GBBUDD]

meandering creek look

Totally agree with the meandering creek idea and with that flat an area i would take it a step further and make it an 18 inch deep area at the end at a minimum for a little pond area.

 

[Swaptrex]

Sorry to go off the topic we’ve been on, but a new plan has developed. I got the 1100 gallon stock tank in the photo for $250, it’s in great shape and holds water. So now my plan is to make the waterfall in the area pictured behind the pond. It’s going to be tight, but that’s really my only option as to where I put it. It’s most likely going to be stocked with cichlids and not koi, since I already have about 30 cichlids. My main concern is if I build that back area up, when we get our south Fl downpours, water will want to go straight to the house. So obviously I’m going to have to put a drain in on that slope, routed out to the front yard. Unless anyone else has any suggestions? I’ve been so busy with work, I haven’t been able to get on here, but every year I close for 2 weeks around Christmas. The photos are just well water, that hasn’t been aerated yet (seeing how it holds water). I think I may still add a liner for more protection though.

 

[Swaptrex]

Also, if anyone lives near the treasure coast of FL and has experience with this: I’d gladly pay for your time / fuel to come over and help since this is the first one of these I’ve done.

 

[brokensword]

Sorry to go off the topic we’ve been on, but a new plan has developed. I got the 1100 gallon stock tank in the photo for $250, it’s in great shape and holds water. So now my plan is to make the waterfall in the area pictured behind the pond. It’s going to be tight, but that’s really my only option as to where I put it. It’s most likely going to be stocked with cichlids and not koi, since I already have about 30 cichlids. My main concern is if I build that back area up, when we get our south Fl downpours, water will want to go straight to the house. So obviously I’m going to have to put a drain in on that slope, routed out to the front yard. Unless anyone else has any suggestions? I’ve been so busy with work, I haven’t been able to get on here, but every year I close for 2 weeks around Christmas. The photos are just well water, that hasn’t been aerated yet (seeing how it holds water). I think I may still add a liner for more protection though.

Some thoughts as I read your post(s); With cichlids viewed from the top, you're NOT going to get much bang for your ponding buck. Goldfish (shubunkins, sarassa comets, fantails) and koi (though your stock tank is too small for them) were designed for over-the-top pov, and that's whey they're treasured. Not that you can't get enjoyment out of them (you already do, right?) but imo and having kept cichlids for decades before going ponding, you're going to miss out. Just imo.

If the stock tank is NOT galvanized, you don't need a liner. Unless it's leaking.

Re your drainage problem; you can bury some drain tile/pipe UNDER your soon-to-be waterfall mound and have it exit behind where it would normally go. I'd probably put a couple/few runs with the inlet where you expect any flooding to occur. Drain pipe (corrugated WITH holes in this case) can be laid down, covered with pea gravel (4" should do) and when you get flooding, the water will drain through the pea gravel and into the drain pipe holes to be carried out to the back/front of your yard. MAKE sure you have pitch on the angle of your finished piping or you'll just have it collect at any low points. Typical pitch is 1/4" drop per lineal foot but you can go steeper if you need or want to. You're sort of setting up what's called a French Drain, though with no 'catch basin'.

Too, I'd make a drawing of the proposed waterfall and think on it as from what I see, you'll be creating a 'volcano' effect, which while functional, tends to make it un-natural. If you can get your stock tank lower into the ground, the height can be mitigated a lot as your volcano height is reduced. And if you're going to put drainage anyhow, you can landscape a bit to help fold your waterfall into the yard better by raising the height (unless, of course, there's any imminent threat of water getting into the house!).

Another idea; you DON'T have to set up a 'volcano' or point waterfall but could also have something that winds itself around the outside of your stock tank and drops in steps; sort of like a natural spring that bubbles up and cascades down to the pond in various levels. Would eliminate the 'volcano' and add more landscape variety next to the pond. ANNNND, you can make this 'meandering cascade' chock full of plants that will function like a bog for you by helping filter the water as it passes. Have you considered bog filtration for this? I'd include it in your overall waterfall design as most bogs pour back from a height and give you a waterfall just by it's creation. A lot more filtering and functional than typical store bought designs, not to mention barely any maintenance at all. Lots and lots of free time then for you to scour the pond looking for those 'harder-to-see' cichlids currently planned!



Just some thoughts.

 

[GBBUDD]

Id not have a falls coming into it but a turbulent stream would be my choice . did the pond down a little have the stream dump in a side looks like the left side would then be close in height. The concern with the falls is the volcano as mentioned above and the splashing and having to control that from leaking out.

 

[Swaptrex]

Appreciate it guys. I’m looking for an example of what you’re describing on google but can’t seem to find anything.