Selling question

[MitchM]

Ok. Not everyone is great at marketing.
I would like to see the forum as an attractive and helpful place that encourages people to sign up and participate.
It's a challenge, but I think I think it's a challenge worth taking on.
Perhaps there could be a buffer of time that the advertisement post could be reviewed before being posted to the forum.

Bottom line, I think it would be a benefit to forum members.
Just an idea.

 

[MoonShadows]

I tend to agree with Mitch. Perhaps if we gave it more thought, we could come up with a way to make the buy/sell section more active and find methods to assure the spammy or commercial posts don't find their way into the section.

 

[DutchMuch]

I said before the emersed tubs I have and extra plants are trimmings... They are also considered cuttings... I have those tubs to study the flower of each individual plant, the "spammy" title I gave is just to get people to click on it, basic advertising. I was trying to sell those plants (again super cheap) to get them spread across the hobby, and because I don't want to throw 2lbs of each species in the garbage like I have been doing. I profit the hobby from the hobby, I don't personally think that is commercial and I have asked other people and they say (and no offence) that the word commercial here is way over thought. Saying someone has the thought in the back of their mind to sell a plant they have grown themselves In the hobby, then saying once you immediately think that its not a hobby, is just plane out rediculas to me (again I don't mean this stuff in a mean way or disrespectful way), no one would be on the for sale thread if they labeled any item or plant then because I can just consider it commercial, you guys you even stated, that your definition of commercial is an opinionnated thing

came across as commercial

Im not giving names, someone recently offered some extra lotuses for sale 12$ each I think, how is that not considered commercial? whats the difference of that and mine other than the plant species? I asked some friends and same thing, parents to and they think it is a way overused word here.. Im only 16 and im trying to just make some extra cash while enjoying what I do best, and that's growing aquatic plants. I don't in any way consider myself a commercial plant dealer, to me that's just, not me.
Thanks for everyone's reply's
Nate

 

[DutchMuch]

Your post from another topic:



This is clearly commercial, therefore I should be grateful if you would refrain from posting sale ads in the Classifieds forum section. As a former tax adviser I also feel obliged to recommend that you check whether your operation falls within the scope of declaration in the US.

idk what any of that means, just because I make 100$ a week (or so) doesn't mean im commercial still by the book. (again your house) I have 3 tanks that are large and have a lot of plants in them that cost a lot on the market, I cut that price in half then when I do a trimming sell those trimmings..
Again this commercial word is just flying over my head. I have honestly never encountered this on any forum, even gardening forums.

My attention was alerted to it because it came across as commercial, so if it has been posted differently then it would have probably slipped under the radar to be honest. However, that does not mean that a change in title would be sufficient now given the history.

Could I have a legit example of what a none commercial post version of mine would have looked like?
I am really interested in being involved in this forum I have a lot to contribute and I love the hobby(s) im in, even though I sell my cuttings or trimmings and I just started doing so I do not sell a lot, there is no profit in what I sell I have way more invested In my hobby's than I do in profit from my selling's. Basically I feed the hobby with what I can make from it. I enjoy talking and sharing information, and learning about the hobby & passing it on to others. It would be great if this forum becomes more active in certain sections and I could be apart of that.
Please let me know if you would reconsider this.
Nate

 

[Becky]

I can't really add much here without repeating what I have already said.

Hobbyists do what they do purely for the love of the hobby. If they trim back a plant then they may have some cuttings to sell, if they upgrade their pump they may want to sell their old equipment, if they find themselves with an overstocked pond they may want to sell some fish, and so on. They sell their items because they don't need them but someone else might. It was never their intention to sell things, the fact that they have things to sell is merely incidental to their hobby. I am more than happy for these type of sales to take place here.

If you have taken steps to make money from your hobby, then this is called business. Business is a commercial activity, hence my use of the word. I hope this clarifies the position.



If other members are interested in seeing more items for sale then maybe there are things we could do to allow this - for example, small businesses could pay to list their sales. Would this be what you are looking for @MitchM & @MoonShadows?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Having been involved in the commercial world the greater portion of my life and owned my own business for 20 years, It is my experience that anyone who markets or sells any item(s) on a regularly recurring basis to support anything is considered a commercial venture. It was stated that in this case items are sold to support a hobby. My business was designing and installing aquatic habitats to support my hobby of terrestrial and aquatic gardening. Should I have been considered non-commercial just because I used the word 'hobby'? I do not think so. There is a wide difference to the occasional selling of that odd item and offering a selection (menu) of items on a recurring basis.
I must totally agree with @Becky. The line has to be drawn somewhere. The fact that this individual has previously expressed that part of the reason that they joined this Forum was to sell their items plainly puts them over this line.
Rules are made and many times they can be arbitrary, but they are made and thus should be followed.

The definition of 'cpmmercial'- "prepared, done, or acting with sole or chief emphasis on salability, profit, or success"

And from the IRS- ":Generally, an activity qualifies as a business if it is carried on with the reasonable expectation of earning a profit."

 

[DutchMuch]

Are you saying (on the bottom) that I would have to be a sponsor? IMO that's a bad idea...
As for the rest: I guess all I can really say at this point unless im going around in a circle with you chasing eachothers tails,
Is that im a aquascaping hobbyist, and a studier of emersed and submersed aquatic plant flowers (such as crypts). I guess when I said multiple times "I trim these plants and sell the trimmings at at least 1/2 the price to spread them around the hobby more" didn't give a reason for me to continue on selling my trimmings. I don't trim just once my entire life its a recurring thing about every week.
At this point I really don't know what to say other than I guess im sticking to purely selling items on APC, Barrreport, and elsewhere for now which im fine with, I don't disagree with your rules so to speak because its your forum and your the boss! ( ) but im just saying it can be improved, and imo this is one way it can be improved, by letting people such as myself and all alike, post these types (type: regular..) of for sale threads on your sale area as long as they can be grown in ponds, or are pond related obviously. But what ive mostly gotten and believe from this conversation is that if I had changed the title of my post then I wouldn't have been "commercial" the word I believe you guys way overuse and overthink the scale of it.
This is what the for sale thread looks like on APC http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/sale-trade/
And I guess when I said I was NON PROFIT that wasn't taken into consideration, or idk maybe it was... Then you guys are in a heck of a birds nest there.
But could you though give me a pure example of my post, not being commercial? like I said previously but it was not answered (more questions ik ik)

The fact that this individual has previously expressed that part of the reason that they joined this Forum was to sell their items plainly puts them over this line.

I don't own a business, like you said I do (I think), and if you consider me a small business at 16 that's pretty good!
I joined this forum (as ive said multiple times) to give the advice I have and pass it along to others. At the time I also had about 12 bags of trimmings to sell (per species practically) so I figured why not sell them.

All in all I don't see how this is such a bad thing and I certainly had no bad intentions.

 

[DutchMuch]

If other members are interested in seeing more items for sale then maybe there are things we could do to allow this - for example, small businesses could pay to list their sales. Would this be what you are looking for @MitchM & @MoonShadows?

*had to say this in separate post*
This (and I know coming from me, is kind of weird for some of you I guess, idk) is a bad idea, if you considered me a small business, then a lot of people looking to sell on here wouldn't want to pay just to get rid of stuff or sell trimmings... That's unreasonable. If your looking for a BUSINESS sponser that's different, most forums have those.

 

[MitchM]

I would like to see accommodations made for hobbyists that are financing their hobby through propagation (plants, fish or other) because it promotes a self sustaining hobby.
I would much rather purchase from a local vendor that does not use the medications commonly used in tropical fish "farms" or plant suppliers that are in a different country
I come from the reef side of things where natural reefs are being over harvested for the benefit of the reef hobby.

Locally grown and sold products help in a number of ways:
-the vendor has strong specimens that are raised in local environmental conditions
-the vendor has a vested interest in helping the local hobby community be succesful in raising the specimens
-forum members receive a benefit by purchasing locally, receiving good support and acquiring their specimens at a lower cost

Some of my suggestions are:
-the buy and sell area is only open to active forum members
-hobbyists can only advertise their items for sale if they are contributing members of the community
-posts in the buy and sell section need to be pre approved before being posted in the buy/sell forum.

This isn't a make or break topic for me, but I would generally like to see more quality items available for sale from forum members and more participation from knowledgeable hobbyists.
I would like very much to be able to grow and sell items to other hobbyists that in turn helps finance my hobby. I don't see a problem with doing that. My location prevents me from participating, unfortunately.

 

[DutchMuch]

I would much rather purchase from a local vendor that does not use the medications commonly used in tropical fish "farms" or plant suppliers that are in a different country

very true; I guess im certified organic then lol

 

[MoonShadows]

I am not looking for small businesses to list their sales, but it also looks like DutchMuch is not a small business....just selling what he has grown since he has it in surplus...at least it looks that way to me.

 

[MoonShadows]

The fact that this individual has previously expressed that part of the reason that they joined this Forum was to sell their items plainly puts them over this line.
."

I don't remember seeing this. I don't doubt you Meyer, but could you please point out this post. because if this is the case, than I would not allow DutchMuch to sell his plants here, and I may have been mistaken in my post just above this one.

 

[MoonShadows]

I would like to see accommodations made for hobbyists that are financing their hobby through propagation (plants, fish or other) because it promotes a self sustaining hobby.
I would much rather purchase from a local vendor that does not use the medications commonly used in tropical fish "farms" or plant suppliers that are in a different country
I come from the reef side of things where natural reefs are being over harvested for the benefit of the reef hobby.

Locally grown and sold products help in a number of ways:
-the vendor has strong specimens that are raised in local environmental conditions
-the vendor has a vested interest in helping the local hobby community be succesful in raising the specimens
-forum members receive a benefit by purchasing locally, receiving good support and acquiring their specimens at a lower cost

Some of my suggestions are:
-the buy and sell area is only open to active forum members
-hobbyists can only advertise their items for sale if they are contributing members of the community
-posts in the buy and sell section need to be pre approved before being posted in the buy/sell forum.

This isn't a make or break topic for me, but I would generally like to see more quality items available for sale from forum members and more participation from knowledgeable hobbyists.
I would like very much to be able to grow and sell items to other hobbyists that in turn helps finance my hobby. I don't see a problem with doing that. My location prevents me from participating, unfortunately.

Good post, Mitch.

 

[DutchMuch]

I don't remember seeing this. I don't doubt you Meyer, but could you please point out this post. because if this is the case, than I would not allow DutchMuch to sell his plants here, and I may have been mistaken in my post just above this one.

it was in my third post down I think, I said something along the lines of "I didn't just come to sell stuff but also came to become a part of the community as im building a pond myself"
"I didn't just come to sell stuff" reason I said it that way, is because he said that's all I came for. And I did come to sell at the time my trimmings, which have now sadly been thrown away again.

 

[MoonShadows]

Perhaps we are making a mountain out of a molehill here? Not sure, but it certainly seems to be a real touchy area.