Discussion in 'Illness and Disease' started by Ulli, Jun 17, 2017.
I wouldn't worry about the rocks, any discoloration should be temporary.
Am I missing something here. Are we trying to save the rocks or the fish?
I guess it came across wrong. I just wanted to know what to expect. I read on another site that Columnaris is pretty much deadly and only antibiotics might be helpful. Malachite Green wouldn't touch it. Having said that, we are going to at least give it a try. Yesterday the 3 of them were somewhat active, but today they are not moving much and have their fins clamped again.
Parasites weaken the fish and open it up to secondary bacterial infections if not treated in time. You must first eliminate the parasite then begin whatever anti-bacterial is dictated.
Please don't take this the wrong way, regarding koi in a small pond. But NOW you do have a problem....sometimes it takes a while for it to catch up. But, as fish grow larger, this will change the dynamics of the pond's environment, as they are demanding more oxygen, as well as producing more waste products. So 3 fish that were fine last year, can suddenly be a burden to the bioload. And another thing, all ponds are different. Some people do very well with these conditions, and you are obviously one of the success stories. So I apologize for my insensitive, generalized comment before. You must have excellent filtration, which is what can make or break a pond. Can you post some pics of your pond for us? We really do like to see what others' pond's look like.
Has anyone mentioned scraping and scoping the fish? Do you have a microscope?
No, I didn't take offense to your comment about the size of the pond. We had it designed by a company that has been in business for a long time and they recommended that we can place at least 6 to 9 Koi in the pond with no problem. I understand of course that the size of the Koi make a big difference. I am attaching photos of our pond set up. It consists of one larger waterfall, a small one, a stream and pond. We are running a biological filtration system. I'm not familiar with different kind of systems, but we were insured that this is superior to some other ones on the market. Here in Edmonton we don't have too many companies specializing in koi ponds designs nor do we have many qualified Koi Experts. We have Pet Smart stores, Big Al and an Aquarium Store that is also familiar with Koi. So for my husband and myself the last 12 years have been a learning experience.
I have not found anyone that could take a look at the scrapings, if we were to be able to get some. I have a very cheap, small Kids Microscope, so I don't know if that would be of any help.
We decided to transfer the sick Koi to a Quarantine Tub. Can anyone tell us if we should place all Koi into the tub, even though the other two don't look too sick, or just the one that has the coating on his scales? We will use the Ich-X and see how that works. It really weird though, he sometimes is quite active and sometimes just hangs around without moving and we think that he is dead already. How long would be have to keep them in the Ich-X solution and do we need to have filtration or just make sure that there is lots of oxygenation?
The one Koi is covered with a white coating that is turning yelloish/brown. His one eye is covered already as well as one gill. I was just watching him and he was twitching and his mouth moved very rapidly. He then went on his side, but came back upright right away. Is there even hope??? I don't want him to suffer. Should we euthanize him?
If my OPINION, is correct and the fish has Columnaris, the following information taken from Blue Ridge Hatchery, may be helpful. I've recently read several articles on Koiphen ( a site dedicated solely to Koi and has a medical committee ) about good results with Oxolinic Acid. I don't know if it's available to you or not. Sadly, if it is Columnar, as opposed to Ich, the other mentioned treatments will not work and you could be looking at some of your other fish contracting it.
"So what can you use? Look for medications with antibiotics in them. Nitrofurazone, Furazolidone, Tetracycline and Oxolinic Acid have been known to be effective. We have found that Nitrofurazone seems to work the best. Whatever you choose, be sure to follow the recommended dosage and instructions carefully. Overdosing a pond or aquarium can result in complete losses." Blue Ridge Hatcheries
If it were my koi, I'd go to Koiphen.com and ask for help, but only my OPINION. Best of luck.
change the med , try some thing else , i think that med is not working or it shud have stoped it atleast , try antibiotic and salt bath too
Not sure where I can get antibiotics. I phoned the stores and nobody carries them. Is it a liquid that you add to the tank? I just noticed though that the coating seems to be falling off since we placed him into the hospital tank. He is a bit more active and doesn't clamp his fins anymore. As far as I can see, he doesn't have any open sores either. Still having some hope.
I really appreciate all your suggestions. The other two big Koi as well as the new little ones seem to be o.k. The 2 large ones are feeding again and also don't clamp their fins anymore. We will continue to put the meds we used before in the pond as well. If it is Columnaris, shouldn't the other Koi show some signs of white coating already? Could it be just a really bad case of Ich or another fungus?
Do not over medicate. Use one form of medication at a time. Over mediation will kill a fish quicker than no medication at all.
I don't think we're over medicating. As I mentioned, we placed the very sick looking Koi into a tank and started using the Ich-X with him only. The other Koi are still in the Pond and we are just continuing with the Knock-Out for them. The new little Koi are also still in the Pond and we don't think that they are infected. They are still shy though and hiding, but they were like that right from the beginning. Once in a while they come darting out to feed a little bit and then dart right back into their cave.
@Tula I totally agree with you about visiting KOIPHEN. While I am somewhat intimidated by their attitudes & philosophies (not bad, just different from ours, here), they do have an excellent koi medical team!
@Meyer Jordan You are so right! Stick to one treatment at a time!
@Ulli Your pond is gorgeous! Yes, I would join up on KOIPHEN ASAP and go to their emergency medical topic. They're going to ask you the same questions that we have, so keep that info handy in your head. They're great about giving relevant diagnostic and treatment plans. Gosh, wish you had a scope! That's the best way to ID a parasite (though, some disease symptoms speak for themselves). And you really need to know WHAT you're treating as antibiotics and other treatments aren't universal.
There is another forum pskoi.com which a member of Koiphen started. It has less traffic, however most of the members are very serious koi keepers.
O.k., as per your suggestion, I signed up for Koiphen. They felt that it looked like Costia, but of course were not sure by just looking at photos.
Yes, they said the Ich-X and then Prozi.
Separate names with a comma.