Skimmer and or bottom drain

[Fruit loop]

Given your collective experience with skimmers, bogs and ponds … I would appreciate your help.

I understand the value of a skimmer which catches debris that falls on the surface of the water before it sinks to the bottom. Will a skimmer be sufficient to move all of the water out of my pond and through my bog over time or do I need a bottom drain driven by another pump too??


If I need two pumps to have a skimmer and filter my pond, what would need to be taken into consideration since one pump would be cycling the water through the bog and the other pump would only be moving the surface water.

My pond is 5ft wide by 8ft long and 4.5 ft deep.

Thanks!

 

[combatwombat]

The crowd here is not really into bottom drains, though a few folks have them and swear by them. Koi keepers with more "sterile" pond environments wouldn't build a pond without one.

You don't need two pumps to run them. In fact, most would argue that a bottom drain should gravity flow to a filter prior to pumping and that running it straight to a pump is not optimal. If you do it that way, you can use a 3-way valve to balance intake between the skimmer and the bottom drain.

A bottom drain is mostly about removing crud, not necessarily mixing water from different levels of the pond. If you have a waterfall and aeration, you'll probably be achieving mixture/turnover just fine.

And the rule of thumb is to circulate your pond 2x per hour. That doesn't mean 100% of that circulation has to go through filtration, though it certainly doesn't hurt.

A side note: I would never run a pump-driven bottom drain into a bog filter without a really pre-filter before the pump. You'd be sending so much blended up crud into the bottom of your filter.

 

[SarahT]

I don't think you need a second pump or a bottom drain (I suggest have a second, back-up pump available in case the "real" pump stops working.)
My pond (9x9x3) is half-under big trees, so lots of leaves and tree debris. Even with a skimmer with a small pump going to a small supplementary bog, I net stuff out of the bottom of the pond periodically. My primary pump has a pre-filter, and 100% of that water goes to a bog. Both pumps are elevated from the bottom of the pond by 12-18" so the pond won't drain completely in the event of any malfunction.

 

[WaterGardener]

Our pond has both a bottom drain and a skimmer. They run off of a single pump. The pipes from each join just before going to the pump.

And yes, we wouldn't have a pond without a bottom drain or a skimmer and it's not a "sterile" koi pond. It's a water garden with goldfish.

We never have to clean debris off the bottom. The bottom drain takes care if that. The skimmer keeps the surface debris cleaned up.

Hope that helps

 

[Mmathis]

Our pond has both a bottom drain and a skimmer. They run off of a single pump. The pipes from each join just before going to the pump.

And yes, we wouldn't have a pond without a bottom drain or a skimmer and it's not a "sterile" koi pond. It's a water garden with goldfish.

We never have to clean debris off the bottom. The bottom drain takes care if that. The skimmer keeps the surface debris cleaned up.

Hope that helps

Just goes to show that there is no right or wrong way, just different ways.

 

[Fruit loop]

Just goes to show that there is no right or wrong way, just different ways.

Ha!! Yes I'm started to understand that.

 

[Fruit loop]

Our pond has both a bottom drain and a skimmer. They run off of a single pump. The pipes from each join just before going to the pump.

And yes, we wouldn't have a pond without a bottom drain or a skimmer and it's not a "sterile" koi pond. It's a water garden with goldfish.

We never have to clean debris off the bottom. The bottom drain takes care if that. The skimmer keeps the surface debris cleaned up.

Hope that helps

Thank you! So many decisions and choices it's tough for an amateur.

 

[Fruit loop]

I don't think you need a second pump or a bottom drain (I suggest have a second, back-up pump available in case the "real" pump stops working.)
My pond (9x9x3) is half-under big trees, so lots of leaves and tree debris. Even with a skimmer with a small pump going to a small supplementary bog, I net stuff out of the bottom of the pond periodically. My primary pump has a pre-filter, and 100% of that water goes to a bog. Both pumps are elevated from the bottom of the pond by 12-18" so the pond won't drain completely in the event of any malfunction.

Thanks for your reply!

That's a good idea to have an extra pump. We purchased 3 "smart pond" pumps fall of last year at Lowe's they were 75% off. But still not sure how many of those we will wind up needing for the bog and the falls. Or if they are any good. Are there any recommendations on brands of pumps?

 

[WaterGardener]

I totally agree about all those decisions. All us amateurs had to start somewhere and it can be overwhelming with all the choices that have to be made. It's a lot more complicated than it looks when the pond is finished!

 

[Fruit loop]

The crowd here is not really into bottom drains, though a few folks have them and swear by them. Koi keepers with more "sterile" pond environments wouldn't build a pond without one.

You don't need two pumps to run them. In fact, most would argue that a bottom drain should gravity flow to a filter prior to pumping and that running it straight to a pump is not optimal. If you do it that way, you can use a 3-way valve to balance intake between the skimmer and the bottom drain.

A bottom drain is mostly about removing crud, not necessarily mixing water from different levels of the pond. If you have a waterfall and aeration, you'll probably be achieving mixture/turnover just fine.

And the rule of thumb is to circulate your pond 2x per hour. That doesn't mean 100% of that circulation has to go through filtration, though it certainly doesn't hurt.

A side note: I would never run a pump-driven bottom drain into a bog filter without a really pre-filter before the pump. You'd be sending so much blended up crud into the bottom of your filter.

Thanks for your reply! You have been very helpful and knowledgeable not just to me but others I've noticed. Personally I don't know how you manage the time. Any tips on time management I would love to hear. Ha!

 

[SarahT]

Thanks for your reply!

That's a good idea to have an extra pump. We purchased 3 "smart pond" pumps fall of last year at Lowe's they were 75% off. But still not sure how many of those we will wind up needing for the bog and the falls. Or if they are any good. Are there any recommendations on brands of pumps?

I've used several brands of pumps over the (25) years - smartpond, tetra, creekstone, anjon - and all have worked perfectly fine, but not forever ("forever" is unreasonable). Because my ponds have been 600-1400 gallons and I don't have big waterfalls so I don't need Powerful Force, I've never had to worry about the cost of running the pumps. If you use 1 or 2 with your pond, whether you go with a bottom drain or not, an extra pump of any brand is handy in case of a breakdown. The extra pump gives you some time to decide what to buy to replace the failing one and time for delivery/ pickup of the new one without excessive worry about filtration, aeration, and fish health.
There's also "Larger Pond Syndrome" ... once one has a pond, many of us decide a bigger pond would be much, much more fun (I plead guilty!), so don't get too hung up on the pump sizes yet. Enjoy!

 

[GBBUDD]

Skimmer /negative edge the most important start of filtering the pond in my opinion.
Then comes the main drain. Bottom drain. If the bottom drain is omitted than a good circulation along the bottom becomes crucial especially if you have rock on the bottom.
The other must have for the koi keepers is a bottom that is shaped like a bowl.

 

[Fruit loop]

Skimmer /negative edge the most important start of filtering the pond in my opinion.
Then comes the main drain. Bottom drain. If the bottom drain is omitted than a good circulation along the bottom becomes crucial especially if you have rock on the bottom.
The other must have for the koi keepers is a bottom that is shaped like a bowl.

Thanks to everyone!

 

[Bluerooster]

Skimmer. I liken a bottom drain to a skylight, or sunroof. You cut a hole in the roof, it's gonna leak. Same with bottom drain. You cut a hole in the bottom of your pond it's gonna leak. (someday)

 

[WaterGardener]

Sorry, but I disagree. If a bottom drain is installed properly it should never leak.

I'll admit that it is a bit intimidating. But if you can't trust that it can be done correctly, use a reto fit bottom drain.