Soil substrate pond

[Priscilla]

No they did not do well at first. When I first started adding plants they just died in the beginning. And I would throw them out. BUT when I added the plant on the right of the second picture (long green leaves) it appeared to have died but I didn't take the roots out, I forgot. After a few weeks I noticed a few leaves coming up and it came back in full force. It grows so well. It multiples by putting off little plants at the tips of the leaves.

The plant on the left of the second picture with the redish leaves seems to put out new plants from its roots. I have been able to divide some of these too. It doesn't grow as fast as some of the others.

The plant in the middle of the first picture with the wider leaves stayed as I bought it for a while and did some algae on it and I thought it would rot, but after a few months it took off. I trim it back and give it away.

I should have gotten better pictures but it was late and the kids were sleeping so I didn't want to disturb them, I realize you can't see the full tanks. But its the same four or five plants in them.

I guess maybe they go through an adjustment stage when they change tank/water but once the adjust they seem happy.

 

[Nepen]

Which substrate did you buy, Nepen? (as you posted in another thread)

I got 2 bags of this: Eco-Complete planted aquarium substrate http://www.amazon.com/CaribSea-Eco-...1443200811&sr=8-1&keywords=aquarium+substrate

I think I wont have to get anything else. I read the comment and it seems the be good stuff.
My husband got me a high tech CO2 set up for Christmas last year and I've been using it but didnt see any different for my plants.. I even got a new light fixture (2 56 watt). So hoping the problem was that I didnt have the substrate and that this would help my plants.

 

[MitchM]

I apologize in advance that these are not glamour shots where everything looks wonderful, but I'm sure that everyone can relate to the following pictures.
I think that there are a number of interesting develpments.

#1, I stopped water changes for a period of 2 weeks in the 600g and the anacharis showed noticeable darkening of it's leaves. Nitrates still read zero, but the leaf colour told me that they were benefiting from an increase in avaiable nitrates.
#2 Pruning had become a necessity because plant growth was inhibiting water circulation. I have some corydoras catfish that I purchased a few years ago for $20 each. These catfish seem to thrive in conditions that have detritus accumulation. I started with 6 and there are now over 30 specimens. Detritus accumulation is valuable for fish embryo development.
#3 The test tank by the fireplace has shown strong plant growth, including string algae unfortunately. String algae has the ability to take over an aquatic environment leaving no swimming room for the fish. No water changes, only water replacement from evaporation or consumption from our dogs. ( dog water consumption is minimal, in my opinion)
#4 The 320g tank has shown no string algae growth. There are 2 - 3 inch shubunkins in it. It receives the same food as the test tank by the fireplace and maybe 5% water change/month. I think that the reason it has no string algae growth is because the plant filter has a substantial amount of clay in the substrate which is responsible for phosphorous adsorbtion. (Meyer, I looked up the term "phyto filter", but someone has trademarked the name for a hokey setup, in my opinion) There has also been no suspended algae growth in the test or 320g tank. That would be due to no disturbance of the substrate.
#5 The green water in the 600g tank cleared up within 10 days using the UV sterilizer. No surprise there.

The tray that I'm using for the plant filter is inadequate. Plants are going to overgrow it by next year. I'm trying to think of a setup that will accomodate it's expansion.
Spider mites and aphids caused me to totally cut back some plants like the pickeral rush, but it has been rebounding nicely.

Any clarifications, closer pictures, questions, or general thoughts let me know.

 

[MitchM]

I have also noticed that the leaves of one plant are faded under water, but when the leaves of the same plant emerge above the water the leaf colour is much darker.
The only difference I'm aware of is that CO2 is more available in the atmosphere than it is under water.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Things seem to be unfolding as should be expected from utilizing and allowing natural processes to play out. Too much emphasis is placed on artificial and/or fabricated means of attaining and maintaining aesthetic, chemical and biological levels in the average present day garden pond, when all that is really required is the provision of basic environmental conditions allowing Nature to 'do its thing'.
You are proving this.

 

[MitchM]

I agree Meyer.

So far, my takeaways are:

-Clay is beneficial in adsorbing nutrients that algae would otherwise beneift from
-Minimal water changes benefit plants
-Topsoil substrate benefit plants
-Disturbance of the substrate can cause temporary algae blooms, but those blooms are not detriminal to the pond as a whole
-Fish breeding benefits from the nutrients available from substrate micronutrients

Other than that, I'm monitoring the accumulation of mulm, or detritus, and watching how it is distributed by water flow and fish activity and observing how plant density and fish embryo development benefits from the accumulation of detritus.

Temperature is also somethng that I'm monitoring, as typical pond plants require higher temperatures that are not present in my environment but seem to make a significant difference in plant growth.

 

[MitchM]

Also, a substrate rich in nutrients is essential to healthy plant growth.
A gravel cap of 1 or 2 inches will ensure that the substrate remains contained while available to plant roots.

I may get 2 koi for the 320g to see to what extent they disturb the substrate.

.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I may get 2 koi for the 320g to see to what extent they disturb the substrate.

Being, by nature, bottom feeders, you can expect disturbance of any bottom layer by Koi. While certainly being a detriment to the aesthetic value of water clarity, this sub-strate disturbance serves a very useful purpose by providing aeration to the Benthic layer (pond bottom) which retards, but does not eliminate, development of H2S and Methane, and promotes the growth and colonization of detritus decomposing bacteria and fungi which in turn provide a food source for other micro and meio-organisms strengthening the Food Chain.

 

[MitchM]

I read posts by people that claim that koi disturb the substrate.
Is it the top 1 inch? 2 inches? 6 inches?
Some disturbance is helpful in filtering detritus down to the plant roots.

Do koi stop when they have fed themselves sufficiently?
We will see.

 

[MitchM]

No they did not do well at first. When I first started adding plants they just died in the beginning. And I would throw them out. BUT when I added the plant on the right of the second picture (long green leaves) it appeared to have died but I didn't take the roots out, I forgot. After a few weeks I noticed a few leaves coming up and it came back in full force. It grows so well. It multiples by putting off little plants at the tips of the leaves.

The plant on the left of the second picture with the redish leaves seems to put out new plants from its roots. I have been able to divide some of these too. It doesn't grow as fast as some of the others.

The plant in the middle of the first picture with the wider leaves stayed as I bought it for a while and did some algae on it and I thought it would rot, but after a few months it took off. I trim it back and give it away.

I should have gotten better pictures but it was late and the kids were sleeping so I didn't want to disturb them, I realize you can't see the full tanks. But its the same four or five plants in them.

I guess maybe they go through an adjustment stage when they change tank/water but once the adjust they seem happy.

I think what has happened is that over the course of 5 years, detritus has accumulated to the point where the plant roots have been able to find sufficient nutrition to sustain themselves.

 

[MitchM]

I got 2 bags of this: Eco-Complete planted aquarium substrate http://www.amazon.com/CaribSea-Eco-...1443200811&sr=8-1&keywords=aquarium+substrate

I think I wont have to get anything else. I read the comment and it seems the be good stuff.
My husband got me a high tech CO2 set up for Christmas last year and I've been using it but didnt see any different for my plants.. I even got a new light fixture (2 56 watt). So hoping the problem was that I didnt have the substrate and that this would help my plants.

What do you mean by "hi tech CO2"?
I had an aquarium way back when that I piped the CO2 to my aquarium from some wine that I was fermenting. It worked well, except my apartment smelled like a winery.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I read posts by people that claim that koi disturb the substrate.
Is it the top 1 inch? 2 inches? 6 inches?
Some disturbance is helpful in filtering detritus down to the plant roots.

Do koi stop when they have fed themselves sufficiently?
We will see.

Depth of disturbance is dependent on the physical composition of the sub-strate. A Koi will not let much deter them from acquiring a tasty morsel. Koi are never sufficiently fed. They are constant grazers in the natural world. I have seen the clarity of many an earthen-bottom pond destroyed by the addition of Koi.....constant high level of turbidity being the result.

 

[MitchM]

Turbidity by itself should not be a problem other than for reasons of aesthetics.
I know that you know that already.

Fish and plants seem to be happy, but I would like to have more diversity for a natural food source.
Daphninia, bloodworms, white worms, etc.
My systems may be too small for that.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Turbidity by itself should not be a problem other than for reasons of aesthetics.
I know that you know that already.

Fish and plants seem to be happy, but I would like to have more diversity for a natural food source.
Daphninia, bloodworms, white worms, etc.
My systems may be too small for that.

A suitable level of diversity is not realistic in a small system. This is why small ponds have more frequent problems and require more maintenance than larger ones.

 

[MitchM]

If I was to incorporate a "bog", "phyto" or "plant" filter into my system, I would ensure that I chose appropriate plants for my climate plus included a substrate that included clay and topsoil.
I'm not talking about the anoxic filtration setup I have read about.