Thoughts on Koi Pond Build

[Gordo33]

I have 2 dedicated koi ponds. Koi only, they will interbreed. total gallons around10,000 gallons. one is filtered with a Savio waterfall filter as well as a 3 barrel filter filled with Springflo and Matala material. It also has a 500 gallon bog. The 2nd pond has 2 300 gallon stock tank filters with Springflo. I have window boxes on the sides with plants and run the pond water thru those. As for how many koi, too many! 9 adults in one and 7 adults with 2 dozen 1-2 year olds. As soon as I am able this spring, I will be reducing fish number to 10-12 total.

Thanks for the input. Is Springflo a type of filter material? You didn't mention a bottom drain. How do you keep the pond bottom clean? How do you feed the water to the 55 g barrels? Are the 3 barrels plumbed together in series and then gravity fed back to the pond? I like the use of window boxes with plants to filter the water. I use yellow flag iris and water hyacinth in a 100 gal stock tank to filter my current set up.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Can you elaborate why the dedicated koi pond needs a different approach to filtration. If I understand Sissy's response her pond only has koi and uses primarily plants ,lava rock and aeration to filter her pond. From reading dedicated koi forums they insist on bottom drains, skimmers , settlement chambers and various forms of bio filtration. I have used a similar set up to Sissy for my gold fish pond with clear water to 2.5 ft and good parameters when testing.

As with many other aspects of ponding, definitions are wide and varied as applies to most everything.
A dedicated Koi pond, as accepted by most of the industry and Koi clubs is that it-
-contain only Koi
-is larger than 2000 gallons
-maintains a high water to fish ratio
-has a depth of at least 3 feet (even deeper for larger ponds)
-contains no plants
-Has at least one bottom drain
-Has extensive mechanical and biological filtration (skimmer, UV, settling chamber, etc.)
-Has adequate aeration
-Contains no rock below water level
-Contains TPRs (these are losing favor in the Koi Kichi community).

Anything else is considered a hybrid.
As stated in the opening sentence, others may have a different definition.
That being said, in keeping with this definition Phyto-filtration can not be part of a DKP (dedicated Koi pond). This will exclude the use of 'bogs', smaller phyto-filters, even primarily aesthetic plantings. As a result all filtration will be artificial.

 

[sissy]

my ball valves act like a tpr in moving water .I learned about the use of them from Eric the ponddigger and I have used ball valves since 2007 .One of my hose pipes came off the ball valve that was tied under the bridge and I did not notice it at first until I noticed just how clear my water had gotten so i kept one tied up just below water level under my bridge since and it adds lots of extra surface aeration to the pond .You can look up spring flow filter media it is like a big plastic spring type stuff and is supposed to be good filter media .I would not want dedicated it sounds boring

 

[Gordo33]

.I would not want dedicated it sounds boring

100% agree. When I built my first pond and was researching I was scared away by stories of waste load created by koi . All the sites stressed the massive amount of filtration required to keep the pond clean and the fish healthy. It seems you have solved this with your set up. Since it is similiar to what I have already incorporated for my gold fish pond ---with clear water --- maybe I should stick with what I know works.
I believe you mentioned using UV filter. Was this added on after having algae issues or from the start?
Thanks for your insight

 

[Jimmy Gibson]

First your pond looks great! Thanks for sharing your set up. How many koi do you have? I think low maintenance is everyone's goal. Can you elaborate on what maintenance you do with your set up?

First your pond looks great! Thanks for sharing your set up. How many koi do you have? I think low maintenance is everyone's goal. Can you elaborate on what maintenance you do with your set up?[/QQUOTE

Well I am very new to the ponding world.....so I don't profess to be an expert at anything.... I have two large Koi....one is probably 9 to 10 lbs and the other is 6 to 7 lbs.... You can look up my other posts and hear the story behind that....as far as maintenance so far it's emptying the skimmer and backwashing the filter every couple of weeks....and of course in the fall taking a net and getting the leaves off before they go to the skimmer or the pump pre-filter.....as I said before we have two friends that have had ponds for twenty plus years....their first regret was putting rocks and gravel in their pond... One friend after about three years got in took every bit of rock and gravel out...the other still has the rocks and gravel but without a bottom drain.....and every spring they take their fish out drain their pond and with a sump pump clean their pond out....but the common thing between both is they want more bio filtration and more pump flow....both cannot do that without completely rebuild of their pond....they both have beautiful ponds and fish....at the end of the day....you are already experienced with a pond.... Get on the internet and read everything you can read...every forum....every site that is trying to sell you something and then take a consensus of what your you want to do ... And what you are able to do....Jimmy

 

[Jimmy Gibson]

I have read all the Koi related forums.....but I am only a member of this forum.....just saying Jimmy

 

[Gordo33]

That being said, in keeping with this definition Phyto-filtration can not be part of a DKP (dedicated Koi pond). This will exclude the use of 'bogs', smaller phyto-filters, even primarily aesthetic plantings. As a result all filtration will be artificial.

Ok then hybrid it will be.....
so I'm looking to build a hybrid koi pond that will be in the 3-4000 gal range. I am interested in what type of filtration and aeration you would recommend. I would like to include a water fall and short stream similar to my current set up. I use the waterfall as a veggie filter and plants in the stream.
your input will be greatly appreciated.

 

[sissy]

No it was added after I had to rebuild 2 times in the last 3 years .It is just a uv and does not filter .I got it off topdog seller on ebay because I was helping a couple try to save the fish after they almost lost them .They built a pond and had no idea at all what was going wrong .I saved the fish and then took water from my pond and some lava rock from my filters to help start the pond .I bought 3 uv's 2- 9 watt ones and 1 -18 watt one and they left me keep the 18 watt one .I have had 2 dogs ruin liners on me since 2014 .

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Ok then hybrid it will be.....
so I'm looking to build a hybrid koi pond that will be in the 3-4000 gal range. I am interested in what type of filtration and aeration you would recommend. I would like to include a water fall and short stream similar to my current set up. I use the waterfall as a veggie filter and plants in the stream.
your input will be greatly appreciated.

Since Koi are prodigious waste producers, I would advise having a biofilter module in addition to whatever plants you may have.
Aeration is always beneficial even if not necessary. Koi are able to thrive at any Dissolved Oxygen level above 5 ppm and will survive at levels as low as 3 ppm. The real reason for maintaining high DO levels is to keep the bacteria in the biofilters happy as they utilize a quite large amount of Oxygen during the bioconversion processes. Generally, if the DO level can be maintained at 80% of saturation the pond, as a whole, will remain healthy.
At what level biofiltration should be maintained will be directly dependent on the total fish load, both real and anticipated, in the pond. Providing more biofiltration capacity than is actually needed is a wise decision. It will provide that extra bit of insurance.

 

[Gordo33]

I have read all the Koi related forums.....but I am only a member of this forum.....just saying Jimmy

Doing that is what scared me away from a koi pond the first time. It was overwhelming reading about all the different types of filtration and having to match the flow rates. That's why I posted my question here. I am hoping to get confirmation a basic set up can be effective without all the elaborate equipment.
In the end I want a healthy pond that I can enjoy with the grandkids.

 

[Gordo33]

No it was added after I had to rebuild 2 times in the last 3 years .It is just a uv and does not filter .I got it off topdog seller on ebay because I was helping a couple try to save the fish after they almost lost them .They built a pond and had no idea at all what was going wrong .I saved the fish and then took water from my pond and some lava rock from my filters to help start the pond .I bought 3 uv's 2- 9 watt ones and 1 -18 watt one and they left me keep the 18 watt one .I have had 2 dogs ruin liners on me since 2014 .

I read some of your posts about the dog and your liner. I hope the pond is doing good and your psyche has recovered. Thanks again for your assistance

 

[Gordo33]

Since Koi are prodigious waste producers, I would advise having a biofilter module in addition to whatever plants you may have.

At what level biofiltration should be maintained will be directly dependent on the total fish load, both real and anticipated, in the pond. Providing more biofiltration capacity than is actually needed is a wise decision. It will provide that extra bit of insurance.

Thanks for the input. I feel confident in setting up the bio filtration system and agree more available bio filtration is better.
My main concern is knowing how to properly deal with the waste to minimize the amount that is breaking down in the pond therefore decreasing the stress to the bio system.
On a 0 to 10 scale how important is a
1. Bottom drain
2. Skimmer
3. Settlement chamber
don't think I'd use the following due to cost but curious to hear your input on the importance of either a sieve or a RDF ( or is that RFD).
What is the minimum you would include when setting up the mechanical filtration

 

[Gordo33]

Generally, if the DO level can be maintained at 80% of saturation the pond, as a whole, will remain healthy..

Can you explain this further? How do you know what the saturation point is foR the pond? IS this something the average pond keeper , like myself , can measure?

 

[mrsclem]

Thanks for the input. Is Springflo a type of filter material? You didn't mention a bottom drain. How do you keep the pond bottom clean? How do you feed the water to the 55 g barrels? Are the 3 barrels plumbed together in series and then gravity fed back to the pond? I like the use of window boxes with plants to filter the water. I use yellow flag iris and water hyacinth in a 100 gal stock tank to filter my current set up.

Yes, Springflo is the material that Savio uses in their filters. It is a plastic strapping material. No bottom drain in either pond. Pumps run to filters but are off the bottom of the pond to prevent a disaster if a hose breaks. The barrels are in sequence with water pumped to bottom of 1st barrel and flow out to bottom of next and then gravity fed back to pond. My ponds are different than most as they are mostly above ground and built from lumber framing.

 

[sissy]

Bottom drains scare me because it is a hole in the liner and if not done right and sealed well and ground is not well packed below the liner it can fail .Skimmers to me are just for things that may be blown in the pond and can even be a hassle ,they can settle ,they can hurt fish and if you have floating plants they can get clogged with them .To me plants add shade and offer something for the fish to nibble on and also provide protection to baby fish .I have had my koi since 2004 and they seem to be fine with my set up ,so guess it must work no matter how weird it is .