thoughts on simplifying

[D&RW]

Happy New Year everyone,

Current status: 4500 gallon pond 22X14 not counting waterfall and short stream into pond. dual filters, 1 = EasyPro filter Falls large size; 2 = AquaUV bead filter 4000 gallon size. dual pumps, 1 = EasyPro 4500 gallon submersible powering the filterfalls; 2 = Sequence 1000 4500 g/h above ground intake from skimmer including modified above bottom bottom drain w/valve to adjust between the two, then thru aquauv bead filter then thru 57 watt UV light and into pond. Aeration Oase 450 dual port aeration with two diffusers. second aerator in bottom of filterfalls to enhance bacteria and support them if pump fails. Fish = 7 Koi,, 12 goldfish. Koi up to 2.5 ft. Goldfish include 3 shebunkins, 2 very old whities the rest just goldfish. Finally, net covering the entire pond for Heron visitors. Plants = multiple lillies remain in pond overwinter.

I'm concerned about cost and about maintenance and about the net which detracts from the overall feel. So here's what I'm thinking and I would appreciate any thoughts and experience others may have.

1) clean out the filterfalls. media is beads and the sack has broken a little bit. need to redo it with new sacking.
2) keep filterfalls as only filter. (biological. the beads i hoped would help with fines but that didn't pan out.)
3) pull the submersible easypro pump.
4) re-plumb the sequence pump to power the filterfalls.
5) ?? eliminate the aquaUV bead filter and sell it. (running the sequence through the bead, the uv and over to the filter falls will reduce waterfall flow)
6) Re-home / sell the Koi and bigger/fancy goldfish
7) remove the net
8) stock it with regular /feeder goldfish. not too many. if the heron eats a few, no biggie. we have a new dog and that'll help some with the heron.
9) add some plants in the spring.
10) remove aerators and sell them

my thinking is this will more than 1/2 our electricity cost. it will eliminate the annual spring medication shotgun costs (i treat with Prazi and Proform C and then add Koizyme periodically--this is expensive). it will eliminate the frequent water changes, reduce them to maybe monthly. finally, it'll eliminate the sense of worry and responsibility i have for those old timer fish. i worry about them and feel a strong sense of responsibilty for their welfare. no offense to feeder goldfish, but it won't be the same. mind you i'll still take care of the pond, but w/o the worry.

let me know what you think please.

 

[sissy]

My koi are over 2 feet long and know what you mean if anything happened to aggie and bert not sure what I would do .I have had them for 8 years and they were only a couple of inches long .My pond is not big and just big enough that I can handle it .

 

[taherrmann4]

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[Shdwdrgn]

My pond is only 1/3 the size of yours, so I'm not familiar with the specifics of a larger pond. With that said, I do know that my current pond has been MUCH easier to maintain and keep balanced compared to my old (tiny) pond, and I would assume the same would be true for even larger ponds.

If you don't have plants in the water now, then these are a must! Plant roots will soak up excess nutrients in the water, helping reduce algae bloom and breaking down fish waste. Personally, I love lots of plants, so I have lilies and irises and various grasses planted all around my pond. Beyond that, I have a pair of skippy-style barrel filters, and that is the end of my filtration. I do not use any kind of chemicals or medications in my pond, and I only did one water change last year. Keep in mind that pond stores will insist you need all kinds of things to maintain your pond, but their job is to sell you products. I have koi, comets and shubunkins, but I also have weather loaches and minnows... a good variety of fish that put out a lot of waste, but my water stays clear and the fish remain healthy.

Depending on your pond, you may want to consider keeping the UV filter, perhaps only running it in the Spring when algae bloom starts? Of course once you get other plants established, the algae bloom may only last a couple weeks each year, and it doesn't hurt the fish.

The aerators depend on your situation... If you are near enough to the coast, you may not get a hard enough freeze to justify having them. If your filters are set up to create an actual waterfall which churns up the water, you get more than enough oxygen in the water for your fish. If you keep your pumps running all year long, this is not a problem, but if your pumps are turned off during the Winter, then you will want to run the aerators during that time. Again, the oxygen content is something that live plants will help with.

You may want to evaluate the pumps you are using. If they are old, they are probably sucking a lot of juice. I had a 3000gph pump on my original pond that was rated for 3 amps. For my new pond, I bought two new pumps rated at 2900gph and 1.2 amps... I calculated that the savings in electric costs with the new pumps would actually pay for the pumps in about 2 years.

It seems a shame to get rid of such large koi... the big beasts add a certain gracefulness to the pond. My older ones are only about 16", and I have some younger ones around 10", but I can't imagine the pond without them. I suppose if you can't stand the net, though, there's not much choice. I've been fairly lucky so far, but this Fall it appears that a neighborhood racoon has found my pond, and I lost a smaller comet and shubunkin. The ice is protecting them now, but in the Spring I will working on my own methods of protecting my fish.

 

[j.w]

Since I only have ever had goldfish and no koi I don't really know all the extra responsibilities of the koi other than what I read here and seeing others I know that have koi. That said I think I have it pretty easy w/ just the goldies and find they give me a lot of enjoyment and relaxing time next to the pond watching them and enjoying the lilies and other plants in bloom. I have super cheap goldies and shubunkins, nothing fancy so even tho I would not want to lose them it will not cost me an arm and a leg to replace them if needed. I just have the pond for enjoyment and not to show them off as anything special except to me and any friends who would enjoy seeing them. If you want ease of care and medical expense then I'd say you are on the right track in your thinking. It just depends on whether you really want to say goodbye to your beautiful koi and if it were me I'd keep all of the goldfish that you have as they will be pretty easy to care for and you may even find them breeding and able to supply your pond w/ their offspring w/o the koi being in there eating all the eggs. I don't even have a filter in my 2500 gal pond right now. I could make one out of my waterfall but right now I just do partial water changes now and then in Summer. I have around 30 or 40 goldfish in there. Some bigger ones around 6 - 8" or so but mostly smaller than that down to tiny babies. I find that if I don't feed them everyday there is much less waste buildup and less population growth also. For the first several yrs I did not feed them at all and they did fine on their own eating just bugs, algae and worms in the pond. Now I like to feed them a couple times a week cuz it's fun and I like the way they come running to me. There have been more babies but not enough to be a problem yet. If it reaches a point that too many are produced I will cut down more on the feeding. Anyway I'm happy w/ just the goldies I have except might like to get a few of the fancier fantails cuz they're just so cute to watch and they aren't that expensive either from the local pet stores. Just giving you my side of the story w/o koi and I can enjoy looking at all the lovely koi that lots on here have and post pix to share.

 

[sissy]

no comment tmann I had problems with the garden sight as i had to hit the post button twice ,

 

[D&RW]

thanks to everyone so far. by history i tend to overengineer. thus the redundant systems. so that's a no-brainer for me. the easy pro is 280 watts X hour X 24 hours x 8 months a year. definitely save something. the OASE aerator doesn't draw much juice, but it's a no brainer too. we did have a freeze couple winters ago that left 3 inches of ice on the previous smaller pond. but i just gently drilled holes in it and it didn't last but a few days. the UV stays no matter what. I guess the bead filter will depend on what i'm offered for it. it doesn't cost me anything now and does help with water clarity. as for the Koi, that's a hard hard one. all of them came to us at under 5 inches, one was 3 inches. i like them but can't have any plants with hanging roots--they eat them to down to a nub. again, i guess i'll see what i'm offered for them and if i can find them good homes. thanks to JW on the perspective of only having goldies.

 

[sissy]

yep my koi do the same but made some of jw 's floating plant holders

mine are smaller and not fancy but save the plants .

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
Well I am one that gets attached to Animals pets what ever even if it is a common Goldie or a Koi I could not get rid of them.
Unless there was no other choice Meaning a Health issue or something like that.

I can understand try to cut cost
Our electric bill is double all others here in hour area I know that cuase the Electric company sends me a letter telling me so.
And I know most of it is from the pond.

I would think that you could eliminate some of the redundant stuff and put timers on other things like the UV in the spring if it was on 4 hours a day and the water did not have
a whole bunch of nutrients you would be fine.
I know I don't run mine 24/7 Mine right now it is off.
If you have a decent water fall the aireators could be on timers or eliminated unless you get a freeze.

As for plants
Yea with Koi floaters will not last.
Get some fast growing rushes or something that can be potted that the koi can not eat.

My opinion just keep a less Koi find homes for the goldies
Only because most people have smaller ponds or tanks and it would be easier to find homes for the smaller fish

Ruben M.

 

[callingcolleen1]

When it comes to cheaping out and making life simple, I should win an award!!!

Water Changes??? What water change??? Last time their was a major water change it was three seasons ago, then I rebuilt one of the three large connecting ponds that I have. The bottom pond got new water only cause I ripped it apart and re built it... three years ago, so that would be less than one third of a water change when you add the volume of water from the middle and top pond. I have never done water changes other than to rebuilt one of the connecting ponds over the years. Fish all very fine, and two of my very largest Koi that are now going to be 22 years old. Those two are very very big I might add, not sure what they weight, have not moved them since way back in the late 1990's when they were still small enought to move! Those two large koi have the top pond to themselves, top pond is three feet deep, about 12 feet long and 5 feet wide. Very large grass sedges in that pond.

Middle pond is about 15 feet long and 5 feet wide and three feet deep. This pond has about 8 or 9 koi, and several large goldfish. Fish in this pond range in size of one pound and smaller. This pond has very very large floating yellow flag marsh that licks the bottom of the pond clean, so I don't ever actually clean the ponds, this large floating yellow flag marsh cleans the ponds so well I just clean the filters and net what little sludge there is left in the bottom pond gently with a net in the spring.
Bottom pond is about 13 feet by five feet and about 2 1/2 feet deep. Smaller goldfish live here, about 50 or so fish I would say, not sure, never counted them as that would be difficult.

FISH FooD?? What FiSh FooD? They eat the same food as my dogs.... Puppy Chow, been feeding them that for many many years now and all good, and fish live outside all year round in some of the coldest temperatures on planet EarTh!!
( I do feed them a very fresh high quality puppy chow that has no fillers and made fresh right here in Alberta.) (still way way way way way .... cheaper that Koi Food)!

Fish Medication ??? What FisH Medication??? Have not had sick fish, have not found sick fish for many many years. Healthy pond full of large healthy sedges to eat sh*t, and lots of good bacteria, leeches, snails, and large population of dragon fly nympths that colonized themselves in the large sedges, help to keep down the population of babies fish naturally, so pond does not get too over populated.

UV Light??? What UV Light??? Never needed one, many many large sedges eat all the sh*t and crudd so there is very little waste to feed algae. Never had pea green water for 21 years now. Did have pea green water the very first year I set my pond up, over 21 years ago.

Pumps and filters... don't cheap out too much here, I got lots of good pumps but smaller size and good pre-pump filters. Nothing to expensive. The big round filters that hook up to the pumps cost about 80 dollars at the pet store but they are about five years old now, very good quality. I also have a 15 years old laguna box filter and put in a better filter medium and it works good. Then there is the real old filters I got 22 years ago that I still use today, from Sera Water Gardens, big black sponge filter that puts all other sponge filters made since to shame!!

It will take some time for you to reach this level of success, you need to grow very large sedges and get a balance in your pond with other aquatic life such as snails, leeches, and good bacteria, but if I could do it, so can you!!

 

[Shdwdrgn]

@D&RW - Try water irises. My plants have some monster roots hanging off of them and for some reason the koi do not seem to be able to keep up. I also have rocks stacked around the edge of my pond where the iris bulbs are wedged in, so even if the koi eat the exposed roots, there are still plenty more hidden in the rocks.

Another suggestion is moneywort (creeping jenny). You plant that around the edge of your pond, and it grows down into the water. The fish absolutely love munching on that stuff, but it grows so fast they can't keep up.

 

[j.w]

sissy is right you can keep your plants in protected floating plant rings w/ screen attached underneath so the koi can't get to the roots

koiguy made these: http://www.gardenpon...-planter-rings/

I made one for my azolla before I saw the way he made his:

 

[addy1]

I am like jw, probably have one of the cheapest to run ponds. Just a huge bog as my filter, one pump (well two one for the stream on a timer) no aerator, no uv, crystal clear water all of the time. No water changes unless it rains, gold fish and shubunkins, a few hundred at last count.

 

[sissy]

I only have one pump going now but adding the grasses and plants in my filters really did work great .I had the aerator going but shut it off and removed it 2 months ago . With lack of rain here I do add water in the summer but did no water changes at all this year .Water evaporates fast in hot weather .I guess there is no real simple answer and just have to find your way through it and find what works for you .Electric is expensive and the less we use the more they raise the rates ,so no winning there .

 

[Shdwdrgn]

Electric is expensive and the less we use the more they raise the rates ,so no winning there .

Solar panels! Sell your extra juice back to the electric company at their own rates!

We really missed out on that boat... A few years ago they were offering State funding to convert your house to solar, paying up to 50% of your equipment costs. By the time I was in a position to take advantage of it, the funding had been cut off.