To concrete cloth... or not to concrete cloth.

[bagsmom]

Morning, fellow ponders! I am back with my current dilemma on my never-ending pond build. I am finally working on it it again and noticing all the chipmunks we have. So far, they haven't bothered the pond out front - but it's only 5 years old. The stuff from Aquascape is so expensive and I haven't found it anywhere that's much cheaper - not to mention the cost of shipping. There is a source near me that has one roll for $530. That is significantly less than Aquascape -but they only have one roll. And still - it's so much money! I figure if I did use it, I could focus on the bog and high side of the pond. That seems to be the area they would be most likely to tunnel into. I have seen many more videos on YouTube lately - from CACs - about chipmunks destroying liner. (I also know that part of their job is selling Aquascape products. I'm not implying that the cloth isn't necessary in some cases. And it is an excellent solution to a potentially awful problem!) I am really torn. Want to help me think it through?
I did have an interesting conversation with a supplier who said it's almost exclusively produced overseas - and many American companies who sell it do not keep it in stock -- they order it -- so there is a long wait and the increased cost of freight adds to the total. Really, I just want someone to say I don't need it. But that might be a lie!

 

[combatwombat]

It’s certainly nice to have. If it were cheap, I’d use it around the whole pond.

I can think of a few alternatives. You could possibly make your own cloth with underlayment + Portland cement. Might need some other additives too. Never made it before. You could mortar over your excavation where chipmunks are most likely to burrow. Could also make some soil cement on site using dirt and Portland cement to achieve a similar result.

 

[Rabungalow]

I personally did not want to spend that type of money on the real concrete liner either. I went the DIY route of soaking painters drop cloth in concrete and draping it around the edges. I only had to go down about 2-3 feet in certain areas because after that my soil becomes solid red clay which chipmunks are not going to dig through. 2-3 feet is about as far down as chipmunks will burrow anyways, but their burrows can run 20 feet in length. Another alternative to DIY concrete liner is to lay chicken wire around the edges and then lay your underlayment overtop of that as to not puncture your EPDM liner.

 

[bagsmom]

I personally did not want to spend that type of money on the real concrete liner either. I went the DIY route of soaking painters drop cloth in concrete and draping it around the edges. I only had to go down about 2-3 feet in certain areas because after that my soil becomes solid red clay which chipmunks are not going to dig through. 2-3 feet is about as far down as chipmunks will burrow anyways, but their burrows can run 20 feet in length. Another alternative to DIY concrete liner is to lay chicken wire around the edges and then lay your underlayment overtop of that as to not puncture your EPDM liner.

The drop cloth and concrete idea is verrrrry interesting!

 

[bagsmom]

I know the concrete cloth is kind of thick and "beefy." Would the drop cloth DIY method be as sturdy?

 

[bagsmom]

Another question - I know some of the ingredients in concrete/cement are very caustic. Is there any chance that it could degrade the rubber liner? I guess the homemade concrete cloth would go directly on the ground - then underlay, liner, and overlay?

 

[Rabungalow]

I know the concrete cloth is kind of thick and "beefy." Would the drop cloth DIY method be as sturdy?

No, its not as sturdy as the real deal, but it's just tough enough in my opinion. Not sure about the caustic part, I laid the concrete cloth directly on the ground, then underlay, and liner. I am in no way saying that the way I did it is the 100% correct way. It was enough to make me comfortable in my situation.

 

[bagsmom]

No, its not as sturdy as the real deal, but it's just tough enough in my opinion. Not sure about the caustic part, I laid the concrete cloth directly on the ground, then underlay, and liner. I am in no way saying that the way I did it is the 100% correct way. It was enough to make me comfortable in my situation.

Sure! I feel like it is a good compromise. Getting enough of the "real" stuff would probably cost $1500 that I don't have. So doing the DIY version, in my opinion, is better than doing nothing. I will talk to the Mister and see if he is up for a messy project. (If I tell him how much money he will save, I'm guessing he will be more interested! )

 

[bagsmom]

I just posted some more excavation pix in the construction thread called "Here we go - FINALLY A pond for wildlife."

 

[bagsmom]

 

[CarolA]

Could this concrete cloth be used on an "upper" deck. It is the ceiling of a lower deck and I don't want the rain to drip through to the lower deck.

 

[Mmathis]

@CarolA Hello and welcome! Are you talking about a pond…..or some type of building?

 

[j.w]

@CarolA

 

[combatwombat]

Could this concrete cloth be used on an "upper" deck. It is the ceiling of a lower deck and I don't want the rain to drip through to the lower deck.

Concrete cloth is definitely not the right product for that application. Look into under-deck gutter systems.

 

[GBBUDD]

Could this concrete cloth be used on an "upper" deck. It is the ceiling of a lower deck and I don't want the rain to drip through to the lower deck.

if I understand what upper and lower deck is implying like you have a wood or composite deck one above the other and you want to water proof the upper deck . This way you keep dry when under the upper deck? theres several ways to do this but you need to tell us more about these decks. but the short answer is probably no one concrete cloth, it can be used to direct most water in a drainage swale but its not fully waterproof.
if your thinking of laying that ontop of the deck . epdm roofing and protection roof pads are probably the answer. but again need to know more of your specifics