Unwell fish, what am I doing wrong?

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Thank you for taking the time to reply!

I agree, science is best. I do know that I can fall victim to someone who seems more experienced than me telling me that “such and such” will cure everything!



I have EPDM liner. I was surprised that a rock put a hole in it, but it was a big rock lol
 
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Cloudy eye can happen if a fish's eye is injured (such as being bashed against a rock) and is healing. It can also happen because of a spike in toxins in the water (ammonia, for example). I also have two fish that just have and odd foggy look to their eyes--each one was that way when I bought them and it has never changed.

Can you get a nitrate test? They don't sell the nitrate test with the API pond kit--you have to get the aquarium kit for that test (or buy it separately). It's unusual to get high nitrates in a pond because of algae, but I still think it's worth testing.

Search hard for the body of the koi. If they are sitting in the water rotting, they could be exposing the remaining fish to more bacteria and toxins.

It's definitely hard to say what happened here. While the koi may have been carrying a disease and you should definitely quarantine new fish, I'm hesitant to say that's the extent of the problem. There are some diseases that can kill off huge numbers of fish, but usually only when the ecosystem is unsuitable for some reason.

For the record, I doubt pimafix or melafix would have handled the problem. Melafix is a disinfectant that can promote would healing and regrowth, but goldfish are so tough to begin with I am skeptical anything Melafix could handle would be a threat to a healthy goldfish.

In the future, I would be careful treating an entire pond with anything anti-bacterial, even something as milquetoast as Melafix. Here's why. You know how ladies can be at risk for yeast infection when taking antibiotics? This is because there is natural bacteria that on the body that out-compete or kill fungus. The antibiotics kill this bacteria off, and suddenly there's nothing to hold the yeast at bay. The same thing can happen in a pond. By treating a pond with anything antibacterial, you risk killing off benign bacteria or bacteria that the fish are well adapted to fighting off and opening up the playing field for other pathogens to move in.

You don't happen to have a microscope laying around, do you? There are some Protista species very commonly found in ponds that, while typically benign, can go berserk under the correct conditions. They cause scale loss, ulcers on the skin, ripped/torn/shredded fins. Secondary fungal infections could easily move in--and it kills fast. A wild animal could have brought in a parasite like that as easily as the new koi you got. Anyway, if you have a microscope, you can take a scraping of the goldfish's slime coat and take a look at it under the microscope. If you find creepy crawlies, then you will know you have a parasite problem.

Some other things that could go wrong:
  • Algae blooms or major die-offs can affect the oxygenation.
  • Decaying mater can create pockets of toxins that can be released into the pond if disturbed, poisoning fish (this is why you really need to look for those koi. If they're dead, you want their bodies out of the water).
  • Water quality swings and fluctuations can cause problems. For example, a dramatic change in pH, or nirate levels.
  • Runoff from rain storms can bring toxins/fertilizers, weird stuff into the water.
How are those tadpoles doing, by the way?
 
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Wow! Thank you for your detailed answer! I didn’t want to overdo my question with even more random details than I gave, but around the same time as this stuff all happened, a bullfrog and a snake showed up in the pond. I was happy because I thought the frog’s desire to live here meant I was doing something right. The snake is just another critter, but I know birds also drink from the pond, and raccoons have been around, but I didn’t think they could get to the fish since the pond is deep with lots of crevices.

I wondered if a raccoon got to any of them, and I’ve been pestering my husband to find where he put our old nest camera so I can aim it at the pond. He said he would tomorrow.

i really think the koi are just gone. I don’t think I could have mistaken them for another because their coloration was much different than the goldfish, but I definitely wondered if they could be rotting somewhere. Ick. It seems weird though since I Definitely saw 2 of 3 shubunkins... and the rest were all goldfish for sure... I was wondering where the last shubunkin was, and assumed he disappeared into the ether with the koi until he suddenly showed back up a couple of days ago.. he has much better camouflage than the goldfish!

i haven’t seen anything of the koi though..

my friend has a microscope and has been dying to look for parasites (maybe because she’s sick of me wondering things) I held her off though, because I was told I would have to do a gill scraping and I was wary of stressing the fishies out any more. I guess it’s better to figure out what it is, once and for all though?

Thank you so much for your answer! I wish I had asked questions earlier!
 
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I always forget to answer at least one question!

The tadpoles seem to be doing just fine! I can’t always find all of them at the same time, but I can usually find 5 or 6 of the 10 at any given time.
I found myself thinking that tadpoles seem a lot heartier than fish, but I don’t know if that’s true. They just swim around doing tadpole things. I don’t see anything on them that looks awry.
 

Mmathis

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Actually, tadpoles (frogs, toads, etc.) are one of a group of animals that are an indicator of water quality. They are sensitive to environmental changes, so it’s not a guarantee, but having them is a good sign.
 
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Just so you know, bullfrogs eat fish and they can eat fish as large as 12" long. They are not welcome at our pond. We do have green frogs here and they can stay, but no bullfrogs.
 
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Yikes! That big?? I figured they could only eat what they could fit in their mouths. Do you think it ate my fish? Could it have stressed them out making them susceptible to getting sick?
 
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They have pretty big mouths! There is no way to know what happened to your fish if you can't find it. But it could have been eaten by the raccoon or by the bullfrog. And anything predatory in and around the pond would probably stress the fish.

I suspect a water quality problem or disease introduced by some of the new fish, especially since so many fish died at once.
 
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Wow! Thank you for your detailed answer! I didn’t want to overdo my question with even more random details than I gave, but around the same time as this stuff all happened, a bullfrog and a snake showed up in the pond. I was happy because I thought the frog’s desire to live here meant I was doing something right. The snake is just another critter, but I know birds also drink from the pond, and raccoons have been around, but I didn’t think they could get to the fish since the pond is deep with lots of crevices.

I wondered if a raccoon got to any of them, and I’ve been pestering my husband to find where he put our old nest camera so I can aim it at the pond. He said he would tomorrow.

i really think the koi are just gone. I don’t think I could have mistaken them for another because their coloration was much different than the goldfish, but I definitely wondered if they could be rotting somewhere. Ick. It seems weird though since I Definitely saw 2 of 3 shubunkins... and the rest were all goldfish for sure... I was wondering where the last shubunkin was, and assumed he disappeared into the ether with the koi until he suddenly showed back up a couple of days ago.. he has much better camouflage than the goldfish!

i haven’t seen anything of the koi though..

my friend has a microscope and has been dying to look for parasites (maybe because she’s sick of me wondering things) I held her off though, because I was told I would have to do a gill scraping and I was wary of stressing the fishies out any more. I guess it’s better to figure out what it is, once and for all though?

Thank you so much for your answer! I wish I had asked questions earlier!
Wildlife visiting is always a sign that you've made your pond wonderful and appealing! Don't take that away from yourself just because of some bad luck. However, be aware that bullfrogs can eat anything that fits in their mouth, including fish!

I've had raccoons take my sick fish in the night. That is a possibility. In my experience, healthy fish can easily swim away, but sick ones are not hard for a raccoon to catch. In fact, just a couple of months ago I had one of my fish, who had been looking poorly, disappear. I later discovered a raccoon had been visiting my ponds--and I believe that he must have been able to catch the sick fish.

Fish are also excellent at hiding, however, especially when they're stressed or ill. So it's possible they are still alive, but hiding somewhere.

I'm not surprised you were told you'd have to do a gill scraping. Most of the time when people talk about parasites in fish, they're referring to gill flukes that attach to the gills and suck the fish's blood. However, gill flukes are only one kind of possible parasite, and I don't think they explain your symptoms.

Microscopic parasites on the skin are far less well-known than gill flukes, so most people don't really think to look for them. Keep in mind that if you do a scraping, since your fish are not well, you will probably find multiple things wrong with them. You might find small amounts of ich, fungus, and other common diseases that are easily fought off by a strong goldfish. It's important not to panic and start treating the fish for everything because many of these will just be opportunists taking advantage of the fish's weakened state. When the underlying problem is found and treated, the fish's immune system will be restored and it will be able to rid itself of piggy-backers. You may also not find anything, and will be able to determine that the issue isn't caused by an external parasite.
 

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