Want to take a stab at them?

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Anyone want to help me identify some of my koi? Took some pictures during my feeding frenzy tonight. I have identified a few, I think I'm dead on on 3, the other 5 are really questionable.

Sorry the pictures aren't very good, from my deck it's 4' down to the surface and the fish are only 4" long so I'm zoomed in pretty far and motion blur is a factor.

Anyway, I have put one fish in each shot, they're named either by the cutesy name we gave the fish, or by a description if we haven't named them yet.

Any help identifying one or two of them is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 

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fishin4cars

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I'll take a stab. Some are still to small to really determine if they will stay or not. I'll also grade them on my opinion of best quality to lowest quality on a scale of one to five with five being the best fish IMO. Again, I'm no judge and I will also give standard fin and Butterfly equal consideration. I'm judging by body confirmation, fin-age, pattern then color.
1- Tancho Shiro Utsuri. #2 but has potential to greatly improve if the black Tancho stays and no other sumi grows in.
2- Hi Bekko, #1 a pure mutt. The only thing this koi has going for it it has good head to body shape for being a larger koi as it grows. the bekko (Black pattern)is extremely weak and off sided and doesn't show any potential Sumi to be grow in later either.
3- Ki Bekko #3 Although this fish has super nice Ki coloration and a lot better bekko the body appears short and stubby (This could be very well due to it moving and the water could be causing some issues with body confirmation. I do worry that the Ki is not stable and it will take 1-2 years to see if the ki will stay or not, If so this could become a very nice looking butterfly as it matures.
4- this one the picture doesn't show some of the coloration clearly so it's kind of hard to determine. It's a #2 at best, it could be a kujaku, or a Ki Matsuba. either way it's not a good example of either, BUT this fish does have nice fins and and the white fins will continue to show off this fish. even though it doesn't have great qualities, I'm willing to bet it becomes one of your more favorite butterflies.
5- Hariwake #5, Nice fish and if the pattern holds this fish will continue to improve. The white is crisp and clean, the red has nice border and even down both sides. On a scale of one to ten for this fish compared to some I have seen. a solid five. It would be better with a secondary pattern but still a nice fish.
6- Yamatonishiki- #2 Poor picture quality makes this one hard to judge but the Hi and the sumi have a lot of weakness and the base white isn't crisp or clean. this will be a interesting koi to watch change as it grows. And it will change a good bit!
7- shiro bekko, Good color but I can't tell much about this fish from the pics.
8- In the middle of the two rows. This is going to be a interesting fish to watch grow up. A Gin Rin Asagi. With a good amount of hi. It could be referred to as Hana Gin Rin Asagi, or Hi Gin Rin Asagi. honestly I still don't know why some are called one and others are call the other. Something i haven't learned yet. This fish I give a 4 with the potential for a lot of improvement. Although not a spectacular fish at this point this fish will get better as it grows and it could be a big favorite as a larger fish.
9- Hi bekko, better coloration than the other one. I can't grade due to the picture quality but there isn't anything special jumping out from the pic provided.
10-Kohaku- #3 nothing real special but it's still small, this fish could lose all it's red, and it could get crisper lines as it grows. Not a bad one but Once you have kept a better quality one for a while you'll probably refer to this one as a mutt.
11- I can't name or grade. To many reflections in the photograph and the movement that was cought at the time of the pic may be distortion this fish greatly. i would like to see a better pic of this one and it's still not a easy one to classify.
12- Looks to be a lemon gin rin hariwake. #2 My bet it changes to a solid white platinum as it grows. I doubt this fish will hold it's ki color for more than a year. Still could turn out to be a really nice fish if it turns solid white. It also has some looks like it might be a Doitsu, (leather skin, German scaled, scaless) To me that would be a plus but some would prefer the scaled one over the doitsu.
13. I'm not sure how to classify this fish. It could actually be classified a couple of different ways. Hariwake, kohaku, orengi? To me one of the better looking fish in your collection. #4 I like the solid orange with the white fins. This fish looks good now and will look good grown as long as his fins stay intact and don't split out they are extra long and if it ever gets in a spawning the fins could get very messed up.
14. Ki Bekko, Little guy isn't it? lol It's got a lot of changes and growing to do. I will say this, It won't look the same in six months. the Ki looks solid at this point on the head, But the sumi on the back has a lot of developing to do.
 
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Aweomse thanks so much. What is the grading system? 1 is worst, how high does it go? 10?

I tried to identify them myself after I posted and I have a lot of the same words, but not a single one matched. You said Shiro Bekko and I said Gin Shiro. You said Ki Bekko I said Kin Ki Utsuri. Glad most processes in life aren't this hard. Can you imagine if this is what filing your tax return was like?

Thanks though, I'm giong to print your list out and show it to people when they look at my pond.
 
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Bummed to hear about number 6 Yamantonishiki, he's my favorite fish was hoping his colorings would be something special, but I see what youare saying about crisp edges, all of his colors really fade in and out. That is probably why I like him, just a shame Japan and I have such different tastes.
 

fishin4cars

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Bucky, The grading system I used was based on 1-5 1 being worst 5 being best. And I must note, This is my pesonal grading. Nothing more. I am by far not a judge and only been to one show. So what I'm posting is personal taste only. #6 the Yamatonishiki is one of my favorites when young. I've personally kept about a half dozen over the last 4-5 years. They start off beautiful fish but they have quite a bit of unstable color and changes will take place. Some get worse, some get better. it's a fun fish to watch and track over the years. On the Shiro Bekko/Gin Shiro. Gin Shiro would be a metallic white with shimmer shine in the scales. If the white is mettalic looking then you could be right but from the photo I just don't see the mettalic it appears to be a more flat white/cream color. Now for the Kin Ki Utsuri/Ki bekko. again the small size and the undefined pattern could go either way. the way you post it isn't incorrect. Depending on the Parent stock and their pattern would determine more what that fish would be called. Kin would be Gold Ki would be yellow, utsuri would be black pattern where bekko would be undefined pattern and more spotting. so as you can see, It's more about how it is viewed and this is what makes learning the names so difficult. Your doing good though. If you can identify the different classes that well your well under way in learning the different classifications. Also in doing a little reading this morning I think Fish #1 would be called a Tancho Shiro Muji. Again that's just a guess but the more I look at it and the more I read on some of the colors the more I think this would be a better description. BTW, Black Tancho markings are fairly rare, on a white body is even rarer. So as this fish developes it could become a quite nice fish in the future. One last note, remember that The most beautiful and expensive Koi in the world is only that valuable to it's owner. If it was more valuable to someone else they would probably buy it. It's not what we pay, nor is it the highest quality fish that are our favaorites. It's the fish that most appeals to our presonal tastes that become our favorites. No judge ever judges a fish by it's personality. BUT, I can tell you from many years experience, Even a very ugly Koi can become your favorite if it's personality stands out above the rest.
 
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Thanks, good well rounded information about this whole process, and you're right, for the most part I don't care too much about the world's standards, I just want to enjoy them, but this is a part of the world of koi I want to get my feet wet a little bit.
 

fishin4cars

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Bucky, If you want to read a really good book see if you can find Koi Kichi by Peter Waddington. It's a great book and covers a-z on koi. Some do not agree with some of his filtering practices. But just as with so many things in ponding some will some won't agree. His method is proven to work great but is extremely large. Other than that his book is all about his travels to Japan, describing koi, health issues, great photos, and some of the prettiest examples of koi in print that I have had the chance to read. He is from the UK and he has shown in several continents. His knowledge is vast and I think you'll enjoy it very much. It really gives you a insight to koi that really makes you appreciate the hobby and the history of Koi keeping.
 

fishin4cars

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I did read on another forum that someone found it on kindle or one of the online book sights. Not sure which one but may be worth looking into. Price wise buying this book usually runs $100+ for a used one and all are. they sold out in the US very fast and he didn't reproduce but one second edition.
 

fishin4cars

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I got my copy from Amazon.com in the used section. I do see them posted on Koiphen and koi Bito forums from time to time and Ebay has them once in a while as well. $75 -$100 is about average cost for that book. $100-$150 is average for the sign version but those rarely ever show up.
 

j.w

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Buck might be a nice Christmas present from your wifey to you if you hint,hint.hint about it enough!
 

ididntdoit99

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&--#60;p&--#62;I am horrible with thier names too, but i did notice you 7th picture look sjust like one of mine&--#60;/p&--#62; &--#60;p&--#62; &--#60;/p&--#62; &--#60;div&--#62;
&--#60;/div&--#62; &--#60;div&--#62;
&--#60;/div&--#62; &--#60;div&--#62;
&--#60;/div&--#62;

Not very good pics of him, i just look in my attachments to see if i had posted any good ones of him, not so much.
 

ididntdoit99

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i really like #3 though, i need to replace a butterfly i lost this weekend who was yellow, hopefully i can find one like that.
 

fishin4cars

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LOL, JW, that's how I got mine. Just small subtle hints, Like sending the wifey the link to Ebay, amazon.com and the page where I found one on a forum. It was funny, I was talking to someone about purchasing their book and then they popped up and said it was sold. I said thank you and went on about my way. On my Birthday when I got it i opened it up and there was a note and a $20 bill. I was like??? then I read the note. the seller was the same person I was talking to and I found out my wife wasn't a very good negotiator when it comes to making deals. Lucky for me the seller was a good person and honored our deal and sent the difference in the book. This spring the same lady sent me her copy of Koi health and Disease By Erik Johnson to help me with finding information to help others on this forum. It's a far more difficult book to follow and read but it covers about anything you can think of in Goldfish and Koi diseases. I though it was nice of her to pass it on to me after she found out I was going to use it not only for my personal use but to help others on this forum as well. A little looking and good books are out there, they are just getting harder to find now that so much information is available online.
 

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