Water change question.

[siggy]

Water quality
everything is good. all levels where they should be. I just tested yesterday using API master pond test kit. (drops) The phosphates were a tiny bit high, it was not at zero, on the test kit it goes from 0 - 10, the phosphates were at about a 4, I added a maintenance dose of sludge destroyer.

Other useful information:
* Water temperature? summer temps around 75f - shade pond, small amount of filtered sunlight. USA Zone 7 weather wise.
* Pond size and how long has it been running? 360 gallons, above ground pond. 3 months. thick flexible pond liner (block wall surround) with large boulders and flagstones scattered on the bottom to create caves and such. one water hyacinth, and two silk aquarium type plants to give them cover. 4 foot x 8 foot and about 17" depth.
* What is the name and size of the filter(s)? 2 filters: 2 tetrapond 550gph flat box filters hooked up to a bell fountain on one, and a bubbler fountain on the other. Both fountains used by the filters are not full blast of course, just about maybe 1/3 pressure coming out, if that makes sense. The 2 fountains hooked up to the filters are about 600gph pumps, but again, not at all run at full blast. I think the movement in the pond is good. not too much. There are also 2 spitters hooked up to just tiny little filters that don't really do much. (those little tube filters for small fountain pumps.)
* How often do you change the water and how much? Haven't changed it yet.
* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? na
* How many fish in the pond and their type? 7 small shubunkin. (few months old.)
* What kind of water additives or conditioners have you used? stress coat when first establishing pond, and some aquarium salt
* What do you feed your fish and how often? 3 times a day tetra pond flakes food
* Any new fish added to the pond recently? no
* Any medications added to the pond? no
* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and pond. na
* Any unusual findings on the fish? no.
* Any unusual behaviour like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? none.

I also have a 4 inch air stone.

Here are my questions for anyone willing to help educate me:

How often do I need to do water changes and how much water should I be siphoning out and replacing with fresh water? Should I put the tap water in buckets, treat with stress coat and then pour into the pond? I don't quite understand the water change thing. How often do I do this?

The filters. I have the fine filter media on the bottom and the rougher filter media on the top of each filter. I've cleaned both filters so far (taking out the rough filter media and totally cleaning it and then doing a replacement of the fine filter media.) Is this ok? Am I NOT supposed to clean the filters because of the beneficial bacteria on them? I'm a bit confused about the filter situation. I do a daily scoop of any leaves etc. of course.

What is a very good quality food for shubunkins? This is what I started feeding them but would like to know if this food is ok or not? I don't care about price really, I just want them to be healthy and happy. I saw some gel food where you mix it all up and microwave it etc? I don't want to do that, just being honest. I prefer flakes/pellets etc. but just don't know the best brand. I don't want to switch foods and then have them die on me. Reading amazon reviews of different foods ends up scaring you. I read "my fish died because of this food" eeeek! don't want that to happen.

There is also a dragonfly larvae thing in there. (not sure but thought I'd mention it in case that's a sign of anything or if dragonfly and shubunkin don't mix?) Also noticed some tiny little snails in there and also some beetle larvae? I'm not positive what those things are. I did a pond creature search and they looked like some sort of beetle larvae. When I cleaned the filters I got rid of a small colony of them. not sure what I'm doing.

I think that's it for now.

Thanks for any advice, and apologies for the length of this post.
siggy.

 

[bagsmom]

Hi! You will find differing opinions on the water change issue. If your filtration and aeration are good and you can keep good water quality, you really don't need to do water changes.
It's easy for me to do minimal changes because I have a gate valve in the bottom of my waterfall filter. Periodically, I can turn off the pump and let the crud settle, then I can just open the gate and let it run out - then top off a little - like an inch or three. Easy and nothing drastic.
I think the key is finding out how much or how little to feed them. The more they eat, the more waste they make, which can throw off the water quality. If you have enough plants, you should have bugs and teeny pond critters aplenty -- and the fish can eat those. Many of us don't feed our fish for that reason. (I feed mine just a little every few days, to keep them social.) But my pond has tons of plants and is teeming with life (and therefore, food.) They have plenty to eat.
If your pond gets lots of debris and your fish make a lot of waste, then water changes may be needed. It would be easier to work on the water quality so you don't have to fool with it.
I know lots of folks will weigh in on this, too!

 

[j.w]

@siggy
I never completely change all my water. Sometimes I will let some flow out while I allow some from my well to flow in at the same rate amount. Not hardly ever tho. I feed my goldfish maybe once per week as they nibble on plants, algae and find bugs, worms etc. in the pond. The more food the more poo and dirty water. Pretty much the same as @bagsmom
I have a waterfall and big aerator going 24/7 and two pre-filters and a pot edge filter also.

 

[Lisak1]

I'm in the "never do a water change on purpose" category. HOWEVER you have a small-ish pond, so you may find it more difficult to maintain good water quality, especially as your fish grow. I would just observe as you go and develop a plan from there. There's really no one answer to how much "should" you change - you'll hear different things from all kinds of sources. Get to know what works best for your pond.

One thing I will suggest - stop with the additives. You don't need salt or sludge busters or any of the other things they sell to keep a pond. Dechlor when you add water is the only thing that is really guaranteed to work. Keep the organic debris out of the pond with a good net, keep your plants groomed. feed your fish lightly (if at all - yes, that's right. They don't need to be fed AT ALL.) and your filters maintained and you'll be fine.

You may want to start thinking about finding new homes for some of your fish - you're probably above what you should be already. Shubbies can get to 8" or more - they aren't as big as koi, but they are good sized fish when full grown.

I don't have mechanical filtration so I can't really speak to that with experience except to say that people will tell you that you should rinse your filter media with pond water only - chlorine will kill the bacteria. Don't try to get them squeaky clean - just make sure they don't get clogged with debris.

 

[siggy]

Thank you all very much for the advice and suggestions (and for welcoming me.) I've read all of your posts a few times over and and this has really helped me. so thank you!

I originally had this thing as a large fountain. I'm really into fountains, but then I decided to add some fish to this one since it was a bit on the larger size (for a fountain) and try to make this a pond. Well, it definitely is a learning experience.

I appreciate the advice about using pond water to clean the filters. I didn't know that! Good to know. This being such a small pond, I knew I'd have more issues with water quality and that's why I was a bit hesitant in adding fish. I just don't have the space to increase the pond size. I will stick around here and read and try to learn as much as I can and hopefully, even though it's a tiny little pond, maybe I can keep it going.

jw, your pond is lovely! Very beautiful.

I only have one tiny water hyacinth in there, I had more but they didn't do so well. Not sure if they were nibbling on the roots or what. But they were just floating around the pond and turning more and more brown.So I only have one tiny hyacinth left.

Will they still find food if there are ZERO plants in there? They seem to eat stuff off of all of the rocks in there, algae? I'm going to cut way back on their food and see how they do.

I just discovered 3 shubunkin fry!! oh my. I can't have that many fish in there. What do you do when the numbers get too high? I don't know anyone who would take them from me. What on earth have I gotten myself into? lol.

again...THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. All of you contributed something that really helped me and I appreciate it.

 

[j.w]

Sometimes pet stores will take your extra fish or Craigslist or Nextdoor.com that they have in many neighborhoods across the country now. https://nextdoor.com

 

[addy1]

Welcome to our forum! I don't change water, filter with only a large bog/plant filter.

 

[siggy]

Thanks again everyone for your responses. Will keep reading the forums for more advice/info and inspiration.

Siggy.