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What I've done to Autumnize my pond and onwards
- Thread starter JohnHuff
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I think that's old fish think. You hear lots of people refer to koi as fragile, weak, and unable to handle change. But then I ask myself why they are banning or thinking of banning koi in many areas of the US for fear they will be released into the wild - either accidentally or on purpose - and will become invasive in the natural waterways. It doesn't seem like a species can be both unable to handle change and a threat to the environment.
"Old fish think" indeed. Compared to to the average funfair goldfish koi are far less resiliant.
Always have been always will.
Enough koi have been dumped into ponds and lakes over the decades by owners who have given up the hobby. Or koi in pools that have been in an areas of flooding which have escaped.
So where are they?
Why do you think koi owners have sophisticated filter systems, when the average golldfish can survive in a mucky pond?
This was the first post I made under the title "Koi's Law" a thread I started on a dedicated Koi message board, six years ago.
Not as an attempt to dissuade anyone from getting into this very addictive hobby, I thought I'd start a thread giving examples of the things with which we have to contend, where other contributors can add examples of their own experiences.
Here's a couple to start;
If you're building a pool or making any sort of alterations to one, as soon as you are part-way through it, it'll start raining.
If any koi decides to go "fins up" it's likely to be your favourite.
Others have added their experiences and the thread has had over 17,000 hits.
It wouldn't happen with goldfish.
Always have been always will.
Enough koi have been dumped into ponds and lakes over the decades by owners who have given up the hobby. Or koi in pools that have been in an areas of flooding which have escaped.
So where are they?
Why do you think koi owners have sophisticated filter systems, when the average golldfish can survive in a mucky pond?
This was the first post I made under the title "Koi's Law" a thread I started on a dedicated Koi message board, six years ago.
Not as an attempt to dissuade anyone from getting into this very addictive hobby, I thought I'd start a thread giving examples of the things with which we have to contend, where other contributors can add examples of their own experiences.
Here's a couple to start;
If you're building a pool or making any sort of alterations to one, as soon as you are part-way through it, it'll start raining.
If any koi decides to go "fins up" it's likely to be your favourite.
Others have added their experiences and the thread has had over 17,000 hits.
It wouldn't happen with goldfish.
I'm not sure how you are supporting your argument by telling me about another thread that you started on another site. Do people have issues with koi? Sure. However, many issues arise from people keeping koi in ponds that are just too small for the size or number of fish they are trying to keep. Eliminate that from the equation and I think you'd find they are no more problematic to keep than any other pond fish.
I'm a koi owner. My pond is filtered with a planted wetland filter. Nothing sophisticated about it. And I'm sure you're familiar with the mud ponds that koi are raised in - no sophisticated filters there either. Keep a low fish load in your pond and you don't need sophisticated.
Saying it doesn't make it so. But we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. To me a koi is a carp and no one would describe a carp as a fragile fish.
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@Doghouse Riley please try not to take things personally - from my reading of the topic @Lisak1 was just trying to clarify an oversimplification. Here in the UK we don't tend to experience the extreme range of weather that many in the USA have, so it's always best to keep an open mind and try to view discussions as a chance to learn. Feel free to check out the Forum Etiquette for further guidance.
Thanks Becky and definitely - nothing personal intended at all! I'm a big believer in the adage "words mean things" and am always very careful to choose my words so the meaning is clear. This is an active, popular forum - lots of folks at all different levels of learning and understanding. And I think it's OK that we don't all agree - if you stick around here long enough you'll find out there's as many different ways to keep ponds as there are, well, fish in the sea!
If you're "not sure," check it out.
You're deliberately missing the point.
Koi are far less resiliant than goldfish to poor water conditions.
That's an undeniable fact, not an opinion.
How many people have goldfish ponds in their garden with no filtration at all?
Have you seen the size of the mud ponds used in Japan?
Whether you agree or dsagee is of no interest to me.
You're just arguing for the sake of it.
Share the link and I will - I don't know where to find it.
I'm not arguing, just disagreeing. And only because I don't agree with you.
That's fine - I already said we'll agree to disagree on this point. I just don't happen to believe that it is an "undeniable fact" - which I just proved by denying it.
Goldfish and koi are different in one significant way - size. Which is the very point you made about koi in mud ponds. The size of the fish relative to the size of the pond makes all the difference.
You actually "don't agree," with a hell of a lot of koi keepers, but no matter, no one will particularly care.
Let's move on.
Let's move on.
No one? Hmmm... seems rather broad.
I'm interested in the thread you mentioned - can you post a link?
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@Doghouse Riley if you make a claim, then the burden of proof is on you. If you are unable to back up your claim with evidence then don't get upset when people don't agree with you.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Let's get things back on topic
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Let's get things back on topic
@Doghouse Riley if you make a claim, then the burden of proof is on you. If you are unable to back up your claim with evidence then don't get upset when people don't agree with you.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Let's get things back on topic
No "burden" Becky,
I'm quoting the opinion shared by many koi -keepers.
Others can take it or leave it,
Who's getting upset?
Certainly not me.
Oh dear! Having to post bits of two different posts out of context to still fail to disprove a known fact.
Try doing a bit of research, if you're that bothered.
This is really getting to you isn't it?
LOL!
Move on.