What should amonia and PH levels be?

[BennyLava]

Just wanted to stop by and ask something I have been needing to know for a long time.

1. What is the safe zone for amonia levels in a pond that has koi/goldfish in it?

2. What is the safe zone for PH?

3. Is there anything else I need to closely monitor? Nitrates perhaps?

 

[Squidhead]

1. 1. 0.0ppm ammonia. ANY detectable ammonia is toxic. If you are just initializing a nitrogen cycle then you need ammonia to start the first stage. Keep it betwwen .25 - .5 ppm by dilution with partial water changes and using a blocker to detoxify it.
   2. 6.8 - 8.5, Just a stab in the dark on that, it may be different for Koi
   3. Nitrates should be below 80ppm. Nitirtes 0.0ppm, again unless in the 2nd stage of cycling.
   Other things to test for depends on what type of issue you are having. Algae, low pH, high pH, etc.

Just wanted to stop by and ask something I have been needing to know for a long time.

1. What is the safe zone for amonia levels in a pond that has koi/goldfish in it?

2. What is the safe zone for PH?

3. Is there anything else I need to closely monitor? Nitrates perhaps?

 

[BennyLava]

Uh oh. My amonia is at about 2.5. :frown:

But after I measured that I added salt and about 200 gallons of water. So hopefully those two additives will drive it down some. They will according to my pond books, at least.

 

[Squidhead]

Uh oh. My amonia is at about 2.5. :frown:

But after I measured that I added salt and about 200 gallons of water. So hopefully those two additives will drive it down some. They will according to my pond books, at least.

salt wont have any effect on the ammonia. What type of ammonia test are you using? Do you use a declorinator that also detoxifies ammonia? If so, read the directions to see if you can increase it's dosage to aid in detoxifying ammonia. Aquatic plants, healthy ones that is, also help keep ammonia in check.
The water change will help most.

 

[BennyLava]

I am using an API brand ammonia nh3/nh4 test kit that I bought at Petsmart for $8.

Which brand of dechlorinator detoxifies amonia?

 

[koikeepr]

Water changes, Benny. Do you do weekly water changes of 20%?

I would start with an immediate water change of 40% with ammonia that high. And then do 20% every week there after.

Adding water to water that has just dissipated does not count as a water change. A pond is a toilet of captured water, and our fish are peeing and pooping in it every day, which creates ammonia. And it's your job as human to flush the toilet once per week.

 

[Squidhead]

I am using an API brand ammonia nh3/nh4 test kit that I bought at Petsmart for $8.

Which brand of dechlorinator detoxifies amonia?

API is a good one, as long as it is the 2 bottle reagent type. Koikeeper is dead on with the weekly water changes. 20% is rule of thumb, you need to do what is going to work for you. 20% is bare minimum if everything is going good.

As far as dechlorinators, I like Prime for several reasons.It does detoxify ammonia and chlorimine as well as chlorine. It also detoxifies other nasties. You can use it up to 5 times the recomended dosage depending on your situation. After reading articles about dechlorinators a few years ago, one in particular by a chemist and hobbyist, not employed by aquarium supply companies, the way Prime works is efficient, some other brands where kind of scary. This was years back, things have changed and new products are out, but Prime is still Prime. The other big seller is that the concentration is high. A bottle of Prime compared to most other brands with the same size bottle will last 2 1/2 to 5 times longer.......Maybe I should see if Seachem is hiring a PR person, :frown: I've been promoting them for free all these years:lol:

 

[koikeepr]

Squid is correct that his process will work on a pond where you have done water changes. No chemical will turn around an ongoing negative ammonia level if there have been no water changes. The only thing that will do that is good maintenance.

If you have too many fish, it's a difficult battle to win. Also, not enough filtration will also doom you. Describe your filtration to us Benny...I can't remember what you set up.

 

[BennyLava]

I have a tetra pond pressure filter, rated for the water volume that I have. I am still working on a bio filter, that is why I was asking the questions in the other thread about how to build one.

But I just built the pond, and so I'm afraid at this point I would not have built up the proper bacteria level in a bio filter. I was just going to build one and add that bacteria that speeds up a bio filter. They sell the bacteria in a bottle and you just add it to your water, and then you don't have to wait 6 weeks for the bacteria to build up.

 

[koiguy1969]

one thing about the way companys rate their pond filters is that they dont consider a realistic bioload .. they use minimum fish numbers and maximum water volumes, your right in adding on a good dedicated bio filter..is there fish in the pond?

 

[koikeepr]

someone's ignoring the water changes query.....LOL!

 

[PS3]

ok here is a qustion what is the max amount of fish i can keep in my pond.
right now i have six nice size gold fish 2 of there babys and about 10 feeders.
so i have about 18 fish and the pond is around 900 to 1000 gallons
i really dont wanna go over 20 fish so iam safe i been doing water change
just about every week

 

[BennyLava]

No as soon as you mentioned the water change I went and did one. It is much better now. I have been working on the pond for many hours now. Also I have learned that my pressure filter is also a bio filter, so that helps out.

I was confused as to its operation as I could see no filter element other than the bacteria balls that tetra uses. According to their website, this also filters the other stuff as well. However, I am still probly going to add yet another, dedicated bio filter to the pond so that I can increase the number of fish. Right now I only have about 20 2.5" koi in the 2000 gallon pond.

However they will not stay that size for long, so I guess I am looking into buying or building a bio filter. I would really like to buy one if I could. My yard is such that it would be very difficult for me to obscure one of those 55 gallon DIY monsters.

Although I do have a question now:

How are you supposed to get your bacteria going, when you are constantly doing water changes? I know you use the dechlorinator so that the chlorine doesn't kill the bacteria, but you are also getting rid of the bacteria's food as well. It seems to me that it would be very difficult for the bacteria to get established and start doing its job, if constant water changes were being done.

 

[Squidhead]

You need some sort of biological filtration no matter how many fish you have. 20 fish is alot for a 2000G. I think it is anyway.

No as soon as you mentioned the water change I went and did one. It is much better now. I have been working on the pond for many hours now. Also I have learned that my pressure filter is also a bio filter, so that helps out.

I was confused as to its operation as I could see no filter element other than the bacteria balls that tetra uses. According to their website, this also filters the other stuff as well. However, I am still probly going to add yet another, dedicated bio filter to the pond so that I can increase the number of fish. Right now I only have about 20 2.5" koi in the 2000 gallon pond.

However they will not stay that size for long, so I guess I am looking into buying or building a bio filter. I would really like to buy one if I could. My yard is such that it would be very difficult for me to obscure one of those 55 gallon DIY monsters.

Although I do have a question now:

How are you supposed to get your bacteria going, when you are constantly doing water changes? I know you use the dechlorinator so that the chlorine doesn't kill the bacteria, but you are also getting rid of the bacteria's food as well. It seems to me that it would be very difficult for the bacteria to get established and start doing its job, if constant water changes were being done.

 

[jason081180]

I agree with squid. I have heard a good rule of thumb is 1in of fish for every 10GL of water. So your 2000GL pond could hold 200 in of fish with a normal filter setup. As koikeeper says you have to plan your filter and pond size for the adult size of fish. So your 20 Koi will be 360in of fish by the time they get 18in. but they may get even bigger 24in or so. Even at 360in of fish you have way too much for your pond. So you can keep what you have now but you will have to get rid of some as they get bigger. The pressure filter does nothing for bio. It may say it does but no there is not enough media in any pressure filter to do the kind of bio filtering you need. Basically your pond is way over stocked already. Your fish load capabilities come down to your filter. the better filter you have the more fish you can have but you don't have a bio filter.