When To Surrender To Leaks In Waterfall!?

[msr0459]

To any and all veteran builders. This being my first and likely last HUGE pondless waterfall, I'm now chasing my tail trying to figure out various water leaks. There are many, but I've come to realize that since water goes where it goes, I'm now accommodating the path and trying to make it work, visually speaking.

The one that seriously annoying me is logically originating from the spillway. I've torn apart the right side and reworked it all, to no avail. At this point I'm thinking maybe it's originating from the opposite side, and simply running under the spillway, under a boulder, and out the other side. I guess it could also somehow be leaking from the lip, but I've got it sealed with foam, so? I've double checked the bulkhead fitting on the spillway and it's dry.

Here's some different pics of the spillway, and where the water leak appears. For the life of me I can't figure out where it's coming from. There other pic with blue arrow is a large one that again, I can't see how that much water is making it through. I've got everything neatly buttoned up with rocks and foam on the other side, and yet?! Lol, I get that foam only diverts water, but dang that's a lot . Anyway, the other pic is after I reworked the liner to accommodate that leak, as it does look pretty nice, like another purposeful stream.

Enough of my venting I guess. I'm cool with all the other leaks EXCEPT for the spillway, as that one is difficult to corral because the freaking liner is bunched up down line (a whole other problem that occurred during the build), although I "may" could get it to work, just not as effecientially as I'd like.

Just looking for someone to talk me off the ledge before I tear the entire spillway apart and start over...but I'm afraid I STILL won't find it.

 

[addy1]

The arrow leak, looks like what my water fall did. The water runs down the rock , spillway face, and runs along under the rock. The bottom side. Then it goes where it wants.

I cured by gooping up under the nice flat rocks with pl roofing goop, a few tubes. Now all water goes down the rock face and down the water fall.

 

[addy1]

 

[msr0459]

The arrow leak, looks like what my water fall did. The water runs down the rock , spillway face, and runs along under the rock. The bottom side. Then it goes where it wants.

I cured by gooping up under the nice flat rocks with pl roofing goop, a few tubes. Now all water goes down the rock face and down the water fall.

I can see the water doing as you described. It also is somehow getting under the damn I tried to create in the pooling area above. I've now gone back and restricted it somewhat, but now kinda think I should have left it alone, as that smaller leak (stream) did look nice, like what one might see in nature. Definitely not what I had planned though.

 

[msr0459]

View attachment 161054

And you find that stuff works better than the black waterfall foam?

 

[Lisak1]

Are we talking leak as in water leaving the actual feature? Or a leak as in water going under rock instead of over?

 

[addy1]

And you find that stuff works better than the black waterfall foam?

The pl stops water from going through, the foam let's some leak through and helps direct water.

I have used both.

 

[msr0459]

Are we talking leak as in water leaving the actual feature? Or a leak as in water going under rock instead of over?

Not leaving the feature, as there's enough liner to prevent that. The spillway is, or hopefully was leaking from I guess a tiny spot on the side lip, and making its way under a rock and down the other side. And because I had some bunched liner that can't be rectified, it was a potential problem.

The others are just annoying, going under, and not just a little. I'm thinking my cascade pooling areas are too deep, giving the water too much time to find a path. One pooling area in particular is the one just above the blue arrow pic., that's all coming from the corner of pooling area..buttoned up nicely with rock and foam on the other side.

 

[addy1]

I had a fast flow, even with that a lot of water went under the rock. So I blocked it.

 

[msr0459]

Day 4 of trying to direct the leaks so they don't wind up in the dirt, to no avail. The spillway is still the main issue, again, because even though the leak is small, the liner down the line a bit is bunched up from a couple of large boulders, and there's absolutely no way to rectify that. Upon further investigation, I'm pretty sure now that the water MUST be sneaking between that small bib liner on the left of spill rock, (under the pea gravel) and the edge of spill rock, then under the boulder and downhill from there.

I need to just temporarily remove all the boulders on that side and rework the dirt, but they're just too dang big!, not to mention I'm on a 70 degree incline.

So my opinions are to perhaps once again redoing that left side of spillway, but this time use the roofing caulk @addy1 recommended, and try and completely stop the water from leaking off the left side. Not even sure that can be done, given the irregular edge of that weir rock.

And/or maybe if my son and I can strap and lift the corner of the boulder that's just to the left and front of spillway, I could then prop it up temporarily, and pack some dirt on that side to direct the leak (if any) back down into the stream, instead of around the boulders down the line (which is where the issue is).

I could also I guess just tear apart the entire spillway, clean up all the foam residue, and maybe see if I could just replace that weir rock with one with less character, but flatter and more even,..which I really don't want to do.

Sigh..what a PITA.. I once again can hear @GBBUDD 's words, "I'm trying to build a Bently my first time out" So true my friend.. but if not for this troublesome spillway, I'd be in reasonably good shape. Oh well, no choice, back to the freaking drawing board!

Here are some pics to illustrate what I'm whining about.

 

[Pablo]

Definitely above my paygrade to know how to fix your issue. Sorry you are going through all this stress. Just one thought, I cannot quite tell from the photos, do you have the underlay fabric on top of the liner? Totally understand the need to do that with the boulders and trying to avoid punctures and rips. But maybe that fabric is wicking the water to make the issue worse. Would not solve the problem of the leak but it might be causing it to be more of an issue. Just a thought.

 

[addy1]

I took two tubes, rocks not the cleanest, not the driest. Cleaned as much as I could with rags, then emptied both tubes into the gaps. All is good.

The best is to let it get a dry as possible.

Before most of the water going under, now going over the rocks.

 

[msr0459]

Definitely above my paygrade to know how to fix your issue. Sorry you are going through all this stress. Just one thought, I cannot quite tell from the photos, do you have the underlay fabric on top of the liner? Totally understand the need to do that with the boulders and trying to avoid punctures and rips. But maybe that fabric is wicking the water to make the issue worse. Would not solve the problem of the leak but it might be causing it to be more of an issue. Just a thought.

I have underlayment under and on top. And yes, I'd considered the wicking component, and have even cut away sections of underlayment to get a better look at the path of water. It was recommended to place underlayment over and under the liner, but if I had it to do again, I would have just put a double layer under, and cut pieces to put under the boulders as needed before placement. Thanks

 

[msr0459]

I took two tubes, rocks not the cleanest, not the driest. Cleaned as much as I could with rags, then emptied both tubes into the gaps. All is good.

The best is to let it get a dry as possible.

Before most of the water going under, now going over the rocks.

How long did you wait before hitting it with water?

 

[GBBUDD]

Your leak is due to your trying to seal on top of underlayment . GOOOOOOOOOOOOD LUCK ... YOU NEED TO INSTALL A BIB LINER between the boulders . you have underlayment under your boulders yes a very good thing to keep your liner safe but now you have fabric that is like a horizontal straw allowing water to run between the layers .

i would get caulking lots of quality caulking and caulk all across your gravel coat every inch then drop while still wet more gravel on top.

as far as how loud it is you have water falling into the pools a deeper tone. if you place a boulder that is angled so when the water drops it lands like it is running down a ski slope. THIS METHOD CAN ALOMST BECOME SILENT. have the water fall on gravel of 1 to 2" and it can get a tinny sound as the rocks can more around hitting each other a little go smaller and more so but can be washed away