Algae vs Zero Algae

[barryian]

Hello - Temps are moderating here in February. Amazing! 55F tomorrow and 62F on Sunday and it's been mild even with some snow. I removed my netting and frame last week and Sunday will fire up the bio. Last year at this time, I used a phosphate remover. I don't recall if a couple of weeks later I used a 1/2 dose of liquid algaecide or just a pp treatment that I do during cold water temps each March. Senior moment. Probably didn't use an algae remover as I wouldn't want to swim in an algaecide either. The reason I do this is, even with 2 strong UV's, though I have crystal clear water 4 feet down, my Savio filter has to be hosed out every few days. I can go a week but the water level on the pump side drops considerably. So, last year, killing off all the algae, I had much less backwashing and much less hosing of the Savio
filter to do. I don't know if "less is more" applies in this case ...lol ....

My basic premise is, this is a dedicated koi pond, zero plants, no shelves. For those who don't know me, I'm a ponder for
25 years. Doesn't mean I know everything but it's a long time. Lots of reading and always still learning. Any up or downside to being algae-less? IMO, I haven't had koi problems either way as water parameters are always checked and paramount, so I was curious to other opinions. I'm aware of some negativity to pp treatments but I think if you know your stuff, they're an amazing cleanup for aeromonas to just plain pond matter ... not to mention a whole list of other negative impacts a pond can have. So that's a preventative I do each March.
BACK TO algae ...

FYI - I have a nice algae wall growth due to maintaining a 50F temp throughout the winter.... That waterfall was clean this past November.... You can see it now ....

 

[Faebinder]

Hello - Temps are moderating here in February. Amazing! 55F tomorrow and 62F on Sunday and it's been mild even with some snow. I removed my netting and frame last week and Sunday will fire up the bio. Last year at this time, I used a phosphate remover. I don't recall if a couple of weeks later I used a 1/2 dose of liquid algaecide or just a pp treatment that I do during cold water temps each March. Senior moment. Probably didn't use an algae remover as I wouldn't want to swim in an algaecide either. The reason I do this is, even with 2 strong UV's, though I have crystal clear water 4 feet down, my Savio filter has to be hosed out every few days. I can go a week but the water level on the pump side drops considerably. So, last year, killing off all the algae, I had much less backwashing and much less hosing of the Savio
filter to do. I don't know if "less is more" applies in this case ...lol ....

My basic premise is, this is a dedicated koi pond, zero plants, no shelves. For those who don't know me, I'm a ponder for
25 years. Doesn't mean I know everything but it's a long time. Lots of reading and always still learning. Any up or downside to being algae-less? IMO, I haven't had koi problems either way as water parameters are always checked and paramount, so I was curious to other opinions. I'm aware of some negativity to pp treatments but I think if you know your stuff, they're an amazing cleanup for aeromonas to just plain pond matter ... not to mention a whole list of other negative impacts a pond can have. So that's a preventative I do each March.
BACK TO algae ...

FYI - I have a nice algae wall growth due to maintaining a 50F temp throughout the winter.... That waterfall was clean this past November.... You can see it now ....View attachment 97392

My biggest fear of using an algaecide is the loss of the algae would lead to extreme excess of phos/nitrates that eventually will be poor to the health of the fish. There is a reason why algae exists.. they eat something.... and that something does not go away unless you are doing water changes, which in a koi pond is a lot of water.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Since a dedicated Koi pond is primarily for the viewing of only the fish at the expense of a balanced aquatic eco-system, removal and/or prevention of algae will not make that much of a difference. DO levels may be negatively affected, but artificial aeration can compensate for that. Zoo-plankton will become nearly non-existent since they feed on algae thereby removing the last bit of a fish's natural diet, but processed food can replace that.
When action is taken to remove these 'negative impacts', the 'positive impacts' are also affected. It is the balance of Nature.

 

[Tula]

Your pond looks beautiful I haven't removed my cover yet, but am getting close, as we've had a mild winter.

What kind of Savio filter do you have?

 

[sissy]

algae is a plant in a way and is doing it's job cleaning the pond water of excess nutrients .I always say aeration is our friend

 

[Jimmy Gibson]

Hello - Temps are moderating here in February. Amazing! 55F tomorrow and 62F on Sunday and it's been mild even with some snow. I removed my netting and frame last week and Sunday will fire up the bio. Last year at this time, I used a phosphate remover. I don't recall if a couple of weeks later I used a 1/2 dose of liquid algaecide or just a pp treatment that I do during cold water temps each March. Senior moment. Probably didn't use an algae remover as I wouldn't want to swim in an algaecide either. The reason I do this is, even with 2 strong UV's, though I have crystal clear water 4 feet down, my Savio filter has to be hosed out every few days. I can go a week but the water level on the pump side drops considerably. So, last year, killing off all the algae, I had much less backwashing and much less hosing of the Savio
filter to do. I don't know if "less is more" applies in this case ...lol ....

My basic premise is, this is a dedicated koi pond, zero plants, no shelves. For those who don't know me, I'm a ponder for
25 years. Doesn't mean I know everything but it's a long time. Lots of reading and always still learning. Any up or downside to being algae-less? IMO, I haven't had koi problems either way as water parameters are always checked and paramount, so I was curious to other opinions. I'm aware of some negativity to pp treatments but I think if you know your stuff, they're an amazing cleanup for aeromonas to just plain pond matter ... not to mention a whole list of other negative impacts a pond can have. So that's a preventative I do each March.
BACK TO algae ...

FYI - I have a nice algae wall growth due to maintaining a 50F temp throughout the winter.... That waterfall was clean this past November.... You can see it now ....View attachment 97392

I have the same problem as you....I have two large Koi and they keeping alot of it trimmed down but not all....so what I do is take my pool brush and give the pond a good scrubbing....most of the suspended algae gets caught in my filter and I backwash it the next morning....but it grows right back.....since I have no rocks or gravel on the bottom of my pond other than the base of the waterfall.....the algae actually looks better than the white lettering on my liner....and before anyone says anything....yes I should have flipped the liner over....too late now....lol Jimmy

 

[barryian]

I have the same problem as you....I have two large Koi and they keeping alot of it trimmed down but not all....so what I do is take my pool brush and give the pond a good scrubbing....most of the suspended algae gets caught in my filter and I backwash it the next morning....but it grows right back.....since I have no rocks or gravel on the bottom of my pond other than the base of the waterfall.....the algae actually looks better than the white lettering on my liner....and before anyone says anything....yes I should have flipped the liner over....too late now....lol Jimmy

Lol ... surprised the lettering didn't where off or get covered over time .... Sounds similar, most definitely. I've also used my pool brush sparingly, but I use it mostly by the main drain area as it cleans that up well. I think if the phosphates from winter build up, the algae is exacerbated, unless I do a pp treatment and remove phosphates. As I said, last year when I did that, I was good for the season. With 10 koi up to 24" in size, they keep the carpet algae at bay, but the floating algae in the water will keep producing even though it is well filtered out. So being koi dedicated, I pretty much eradicate algae these days.

 

[barryian]

My biggest fear of using an algaecide is the loss of the algae would lead to extreme excess of phos/nitrates that eventually will be poor to the health of the fish. There is a reason why algae exists.. they eat something.... and that something does not go away unless you are doing water changes, which in a koi pond is a lot of water.

Not sure how the lack of algae increases phosphates. I do water changes but less often last year as without the algae problem, eat seem less necessary as often as the previous years. Once phosphates are removed from the winter debris even though netted, I never have had phosphates rise and my nitrates remain 0 - extremely low. My water changes are 15-20% every few weeks. At one point before my pond rebuild in 2012, I had to do water changes weekly. No more! With the overkill filtration, I could last a month.

 

[barryian]

Your pond looks beautiful I haven't removed my cover yet, but am getting close, as we've had a mild winter.

What kind of Savio filter do you have?

Did I say filter, I meant skimmer! It's the large Savio with an 8" weir and a 2800gph pump. Then there's an GcTek Alpha One 2.5 bio-filter good
up to 5000 gallons. I'm running quite a bit of overkill... I always felt in a koi pond, overkill is always better than just meeting the minimum requirements, especially when your 6-8" koi become 24-30" koi. As said, pond is 2000 gal...

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Once phosphates are removed from the winter debris even though netted, I never have had phosphates rise and my nitrates remain 0 - extremely low.

Curious. given your lack of any aquatic plantings, how do you account for '0' Nitrate? Where is it going?

 

[barryian]

Your pond looks beautiful I haven't removed my cover yet, but am getting close, as we've had a mild winter.

What kind of Savio filter do you have?

Since a dedicated Koi pond is primarily for the viewing of only the fish at the expense of a balanced aquatic eco-system, removal and/or prevention of algae will not make that much of a difference. DO levels may be negatively affected, but artificial aeration can compensate for that. Zoo-plankton will become nearly non-existent since they feed on algae thereby removing the last bit of a fish's natural diet, but processed food can replace that.
When action is taken to remove these 'negative impacts', the 'positive impacts' are also affected. It is the balance of Nature.

Hi there @Meyer Jordan ... Agreed being dedicated koi, I felt the same way. I was curious as to opinions. I realize, algae never hurt my old pond but it was a different setup. 25 years ago when I started, I had a gravity fed vegetable filter, planted, with plants on shelves. Pond was about 600 gallons.
Currently the DO levels are somewhat affected but not enough to affect the fish. Using a DO meter, if I recall correctly, the level was about 7-8? Does that sound right? I haven't used it in a few years. In 85F degree water which is rare, there's no problem visually and I have a Hakko running 24/7/ 365 .... So, it supplements the balance I've removed. Also the waterfall & bio water converge returning via the waterfall giving more oxygen. I even have an oxygen line running in the skimmer. Probably totally unnecessary. Nice hearing different opinions or and scenarios.

 

[barryian]

Curious. given your lack of any aquatic plantings, how do you account for '0' Nitrate? Where is it going?

Good question. Could it be the high content of algae collected in the filter and skimmer where the water passes through? It is always extremely
low if not close to 0 ....

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Many well planted eco-ponds never have a Nitrate level of Zero. I find it extremely baffling that in a dedicated Koi Pond such as yours such a leel would exist. Nitrate is always the one parameter that DKPs chronically have elevated levels. The biofilter and/or skimmer may house algae but at levels (without clogging) not sufficent to maintain a zero reading.

FYI: This is the volume conversions of nitrification.
1 ppm ammonia --> 2.7 ppm nitrite --> 3.6 ppm nitrate

 

[barryian]

Many well planted eco-ponds never have a Nitrate level of Zero. I find it extremely baffling that in a dedicated Koi Pond such as yours such a leel would exist. Nitrate is always the one parameter that DKPs chronically have elevated levels. The biofilter and/or skimmer may house algae but at levels (without clogging) not sufficent to maintain a zero reading.

FYI: This is the volume conversions of nitrification.
1 ppm ammonia --> 2.7 ppm nitrite --> 3.6 ppm nitrate

So, Through the winter I've checked the ammonia, nitrites, pH, kH and gH but never bothered with nitrates since the around November.
I will check the nitrates tomorrow as I plan to start up the bio. We'll see what we have and I'll let you know the number!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

So, Through the winter I've checked the ammonia, nitrites, pH, kH and gH but never bothered with nitrates since the around November.
I will check the nitrates tomorrow as I plan to start up the bio. We'll see what we have and I'll let you know the number!

I would be more interested in the Nitrate level after the biofilter has cycled.....in about 4 weeks.