Am I doing this right??

Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
117
Reaction score
84
Location
Beebe, Arkansas
After having my pond crash last season and losing all but one of my koi, I'm making another go of it with new knowledge and hopefully better results.
My pond is a 15,000gal swimming pool, 30ft x 15 ft. ..3 1/2 deep at the shallow end and 6 ft on the deep end. Have a bottom drain and two skimmers on each side. Mostly draw water from the skimmers, not only because they clean the leaves etc but the drain only has a 1 1/2" pipe, which cuts the flow into the filter, whereas the skimmers have a 2" pipe.
Have a 7500gph PerformancePro Artesian 2 pump, going into an AquaUltraviolet Ultima II Biofilter, which is rated for 10,000-20,000gal., going thru a 2000watt AquaUltraviolet UV sterilizer before re-entering the pond thru 3 jets. It gives me excellent circulation and the water turns over every 2 hours. I had a new liner installed before I converted it to a koi pond. Have many large rocks spaced about a foot apart on the bottom before it slopes to the deep end, where I have nothing but the liner on the bottom. The steps are covered with large rocks to hide the white steps and I have a couple potted plants on the steps. The steep wall design of the pool makes a lot of plants impractical.

The pond was very stable for a season and a half and my koi and goldfish were healthy and growing. They even spawned last year and we had a few babies swimming around. The first trouble I noticed were bulging eyes on the baby fish, which would come and go. I went on vacation last August and one day my wife called telling me the fish were all on the bottom on the deep end not looking good. I figured it was an ammonia spike so told her not to feed until I got back. Things stabilized a bit but I was getting wild Ph swings and ammonia & nitrate spikes. My test kit was the API "master" set, and all the tests were usually good until they weren't. Tried many thing to chase the Ph levels, at last result added salt which temporarily helped. When the fish died it would be like they were fine in the afternoon then 6 or 8 dead ones all at once. Looking back I think I made to major mistakes. Since my wife was always complaining about running up the water bill, I didn't do any water changes, and in my "master" test kit, there was no test for KH, so I didn't test for it. I think my KH went way down and the fish kills were the result of overnight Ph crashes. Last fall as winter was beginning to come on, I gave up for the year and drained half the water out, one reason the remove much of the salt I put in and to dilute the water in case there was a toxic mix of some sort killing the fish.

Over the winter rain filled the pool and I started out by catching a few bluegill from my fishing pond and seeing if they lived in the pool. After a week or less they died. Several times I did this with same results. I took a sample of water to a reputable fish store and they tested the water and said it was fine but told me rain water was not good to add in the pond. I purchased 10 goldfish (5 comets 5 shubunkins) to try it again. I thought the bluegill may not have survived because the fishing pond Ph is a constant 7.0 and my pool was much higher. After couple days the goldfish started to get sluggish and had 2 die on me. I did a water change. When I do a water change I turn off the filter so the water is not moving. I put a sump pump with hose attached in the very deep end and pump water out. In the shallow end I run a hose with fresh water for 4 hours. That seemed to do the trick and the goldfish perked up nice. After 2 weeks I added 6 sarasa goldfish, 5 shubunkins, and 2 koi. Every time they looked sluggish I did another water change. 2 weeks later everything looking good so I took the big step and added 22 koi, most 5-6" and a couple 8". Had one ammonia spike where they all sat on the bottom and I lost one of the koi. Still getting wide Ph swings, 7.2 in the morning, 8.6 or more in the afternoon. Now I only feed once a day in the morning when the Ph is low, and test for ammonia before feeding until my filter cycles. After 2 weeks koi seemed OK but noticed bulging eyes on some so I figured I better do some research and find out what's going on. Bought a KH test kit and found out I had no KH.
KH must have been zero because the water turned yellow on the first drop.
I tested my tap water and the Ph is 8.2, KH 17.9.
Started adding 4 cups sodium bicarbonate every 24 hrs. KH is now 71.6, not there yet but going in the right direction. Morning Ph is now 7.8.
GH must be very low with all that rain water so yesterday I started building it up with 4 lbs Epsom salt and 4 lbs Calcium Chloride. Bought a GH test kit at the local aquarium store but don't think it worked. An API kit in an old box I had never seen. Thinking it might be outdated I ordered another one online. In addition I've been putting in 15 tbsp. of Koi Clay weekly. To charge my filter I'm using Microbe-Lift PBL bacteria, 20 oz weekly with the UV lights turned off 48 hrs after application.

Anyways this is what I'm doing and it seems be working so far. My levels aren't yet where they should be but they're getting there. The fish are much more active and their bulging eyes seem to be better.
If anyone has any comments as to what I should do more or less of, I'd welcome any suggestions.
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
2,395
Reaction score
987
Location
near Kalamazoo, Michigan
I dont know much about regulating KH but I was wondering what kind of filter do you have? A swimming pool will generally need much less filtration than a pool turned fish pond stocked with carp, which are very messy. Also, a 2000 watt UV? I think mine is like 9 watts...
It does not surprise me that some of the fish you are buying from the fish store are dying. It is very common for fish store fish to have flukes. It is possible that they come to you sick and then die later. Any new fish you add without a quarantine period and treatment for flukes etc also has a chance of killing the fish already in the pool.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
117
Reaction score
84
Location
Beebe, Arkansas
I dont know much about regulating KH but I was wondering what kind of filter do you have? A swimming pool will generally need much less filtration than a pool turned fish pond stocked with carp, which are very messy. Also, a 2000 watt UV? I think mine is like 9 watts...
It does not surprise me that some of the fish you are buying from the fish store are dying. It is very common for fish store fish to have flukes. It is possible that they come to you sick and then die later. Any new fish you add without a quarantine period and treatment for flukes etc also has a chance of killing the fish already in the pool.
My filter is a large AquaUltraviolet biofilter designed for koi. When I first converted it to a fish pond, I thought I could get by on the sand filter that was already in my swimming pool. WRONG!!!! The sand filter doesn't work for S****. I quickly bought the new pump, filter, and UV. The 2000 U&V is what's required for 15,000 gal. It is 5 - 40watt bulbs. I don't get my fish from the fish store. Except from the trial first goldfish purchased locally, I get all my koi from NextDayKoi, via EBAY. Can't beat the selection and and I've gotten some very good deals thru the bidding process. These folks specialize in shipping koi and I've had nothing but great luck with them. There simply are no koi available to buy here locally. Only had one die, and that was because of an ammonia spike.
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
2,395
Reaction score
987
Location
near Kalamazoo, Michigan
Thanks for the additional info Larry. I dont mean to be a dope but isn't 5 40 watt bulbs 200 watts? Sounds like you have a really cool set up over there. I hope you can get it all sorted out. I have to tell you, I dont think I would suggest adding so many fish at once this time. As you already learned, it could cause an ammonia spike. You need to increase the fish load slowly, so that the benificial bacteria that convert ammonia and nitrite have time to multiply to handle the additional fish load.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
117
Reaction score
84
Location
Beebe, Arkansas
Thanks for the additional info Larry. I dont mean to be a dope but isn't 5 40 watt bulbs 200 watts? Sounds like you have a really cool set up over there. I hope you can get it all sorted out. I have to tell you, I dont think I would suggest adding so many fish at once this time. As you already learned, it could cause an ammonia spike. You need to increase the fish load slowly, so that the benificial bacteria that convert ammonia and nitrite have time to multiply to handle the additional fish load.
Wooops....you are correct...the UV is 200 watt, not 2000. You are correct about adding fish gradually, but I felt that many isn't that big a load for 15,000 gal volume and I thought the filter was further along than it was. Lack of bicarbonate inhibits bacterial growth I found out. Regulating my feeding schedule and regular weekly addition of bacterial should hopefully take care of it. Thanks for the reply. :)
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
2,395
Reaction score
987
Location
near Kalamazoo, Michigan
Larry I was looking online at the filters you mentioned. It seems like the entire thing is enclosed? I was doing some reading a while back on a reputable site and it said that the benificial bacteria that process ammonia and nitrite into nitrate are only about 10% as effective when they are in an enclosed filter like that as opposed to when they are in an oxygen rich environment, where the filter has much more exposure to open air. Something to consider.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
117
Reaction score
84
Location
Beebe, Arkansas
Larry I was looking online at the filters you mentioned. It seems like the entire thing is enclosed? I was doing some reading a while back on a reputable site and it said that the benificial bacteria that process ammonia and nitrite into nitrate are only about 10% as effective when they are in an enclosed filter like that as opposed to when they are in an oxygen rich environment, where the filter has much more exposure to open air. Something to consider.
It worked great before I let my KH levels drop to lethal levels last year. If you look you'll find that there just aren't that many filters in that size to choose from. With the astronomical cost of these things, I'm going to have this one hooked up for the foreseeable future. :)
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
2,395
Reaction score
987
Location
near Kalamazoo, Michigan
Oh yeah im not saying get another one or anything! I guess I was just suggesting if ammonia etc becomes an issue again in the future you could look to add more biofiltration like a trickle tower or something :)
 

addy1

water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
44,414
Reaction score
29,205
Location
Frederick, Maryland
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
Larry,
Our well water is very soft, one drop soft. I add a bunch of crushed oyster shells into our bog (lots of water flow) every year. I add 100 lbs every year, that keeps my kh around 130 now, doing this has also stabilized my ph, our well water is 5.5 or so. I don't know if you have a way to add them with your set up.
 

crsublette

coyotes call me Charles
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
2,678
Reaction score
1,100
Location
Dalhart Texas
Hardiness Zone
6a
After having my pond crash last season and losing all but one of my koi, I'm making another go of it with new knowledge and hopefully better results.
My pond is a 15,000gal swimming pool, 30ft x 15 ft. ..3 1/2 deep at the shallow end and 6 ft on the deep end. Have a bottom drain and two skimmers on each side. Mostly draw water from the skimmers, not only because they clean the leaves etc but the drain only has a 1 1/2" pipe, which cuts the flow into the filter, whereas the skimmers have a 2" pipe.
Have a 7500gph PerformancePro Artesian 2 pump, going into an AquaUltraviolet Ultima II Biofilter, which is rated for 10,000-20,000gal., going thru a 2000watt AquaUltraviolet UV sterilizer before re-entering the pond thru 3 jets. It gives me excellent circulation and the water turns over every 2 hours. I had a new liner installed before I converted it to a koi pond. Have many large rocks spaced about a foot apart on the bottom before it slopes to the deep end, where I have nothing but the liner on the bottom. The steps are covered with large rocks to hide the white steps and I have a couple potted plants on the steps. The steep wall design of the pool makes a lot of plants impractical.

The pond was very stable for a season and a half and my koi and goldfish were healthy and growing. They even spawned last year and we had a few babies swimming around. The first trouble I noticed were bulging eyes on the baby fish, which would come and go. I went on vacation last August and one day my wife called telling me the fish were all on the bottom on the deep end not looking good. I figured it was an ammonia spike so told her not to feed until I got back. Things stabilized a bit but I was getting wild Ph swings and ammonia & nitrate spikes. My test kit was the API "master" set, and all the tests were usually good until they weren't. Tried many thing to chase the Ph levels, at last result added salt which temporarily helped. When the fish died it would be like they were fine in the afternoon then 6 or 8 dead ones all at once. Looking back I think I made to major mistakes. Since my wife was always complaining about running up the water bill, I didn't do any water changes, and in my "master" test kit, there was no test for KH, so I didn't test for it. I think my KH went way down and the fish kills were the result of overnight Ph crashes. Last fall as winter was beginning to come on, I gave up for the year and drained half the water out, one reason the remove much of the salt I put in and to dilute the water in case there was a toxic mix of some sort killing the fish.

Over the winter rain filled the pool and I started out by catching a few bluegill from my fishing pond and seeing if they lived in the pool. After a week or less they died. Several times I did this with same results. I took a sample of water to a reputable fish store and they tested the water and said it was fine but told me rain water was not good to add in the pond. I purchased 10 goldfish (5 comets 5 shubunkins) to try it again. I thought the bluegill may not have survived because the fishing pond Ph is a constant 7.0 and my pool was much higher. After couple days the goldfish started to get sluggish and had 2 die on me. I did a water change. When I do a water change I turn off the filter so the water is not moving. I put a sump pump with hose attached in the very deep end and pump water out. In the shallow end I run a hose with fresh water for 4 hours. That seemed to do the trick and the goldfish perked up nice. After 2 weeks I added 6 sarasa goldfish, 5 shubunkins, and 2 koi. Every time they looked sluggish I did another water change. 2 weeks later everything looking good so I took the big step and added 22 koi, most 5-6" and a couple 8". Had one ammonia spike where they all sat on the bottom and I lost one of the koi. Still getting wide Ph swings, 7.2 in the morning, 8.6 or more in the afternoon. Now I only feed once a day in the morning when the Ph is low, and test for ammonia before feeding until my filter cycles. After 2 weeks koi seemed OK but noticed bulging eyes on some so I figured I better do some research and find out what's going on. Bought a KH test kit and found out I had no KH.
KH must have been zero because the water turned yellow on the first drop.
I tested my tap water and the Ph is 8.2, KH 17.9.
Started adding 4 cups sodium bicarbonate every 24 hrs. KH is now 71.6, not there yet but going in the right direction. Morning Ph is now 7.8.
GH must be very low with all that rain water so yesterday I started building it up with 4 lbs Epsom salt and 4 lbs Calcium Chloride. Bought a GH test kit at the local aquarium store but don't think it worked. An API kit in an old box I had never seen. Thinking it might be outdated I ordered another one online. In addition I've been putting in 15 tbsp. of Koi Clay weekly. To charge my filter I'm using Microbe-Lift PBL bacteria, 20 oz weekly with the UV lights turned off 48 hrs after application.

Anyways this is what I'm doing and it seems be working so far. My levels aren't yet where they should be but they're getting there. The fish are much more active and their bulging eyes seem to be better.
If anyone has any comments as to what I should do more or less of, I'd welcome any suggestions.


Sounds like you got it figured good. Yep, I do believe you have correctly pointed out the problem.

I would add significant larger amount of koi clay, that is around up to the amount of one pound per 1,000 gallons of water. Eventually, after a few days, this will settle and incorporate in the water so the water does not remain cloudy.

Personally, look into seeing how you can add some complex formulation of calcium carbonate (i.e., crushed oyster shells/grit, aragonite sand, crushed coral, crushed limestone, crushed calcified algae, etc), You can just let this lay at the bottom or create a few above ground small bogs, that has quite a bit of calcium carbonate mixed into it, and then the bogs can gravity flow back into the swimming pool / pond. To get an idea of what I am talking about, post#12 in thread greenish pond, shows an image. Then, once a season, continually incorporate the calcium carbonate to the top of these small bogs. This will simply give you more of a KH "pillow" to help reduce the amount of baking soda to be used, but than instantly increasing the KH. The thread, Raising KH with Coral or Oyster Shells, better explains what I am trying to propose.
 

crsublette

coyotes call me Charles
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
2,678
Reaction score
1,100
Location
Dalhart Texas
Hardiness Zone
6a
I don't get my fish from the fish store. Except from the trial first goldfish purchased locally, I get all my koi from NextDayKoi, via EBAY. Can't beat the selection and and I've gotten some very good deals thru the bidding process. These folks specialize in shipping koi and I've had nothing but great luck with them. There simply are no koi available to buy here locally. Only had one die, and that was because of an ammonia spike.

Irrelevant of where the fish are obtained, I would still quarantine them. To better explain, post#4 in thread food for thought myths.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
30,919
Messages
509,997
Members
13,127
Latest member
jcJohn

Latest Threads

Top