Any good links for a water feature for a deck?

[TravelingSeas]

Hello everyone, I was wondering if anyone coould point me somewhere that had some good ideas I can jump from regarding ponds and decks. I am adding to my existing deck (unfortunately due to being at work for 24 hours I won't know what size finally until tomorrow night) and I want to add a water feature. I'm not all that creative when I have no where to start but once I see some things I can usually piggyback from there and get to something I like. As it stands I'm leaning towards using lanscaping ties to build a box that will act as a railing/wall for one long side and half of the shorter so it willl be like an L. Longest side probably around 12-15' and the short run around 6'. Perhaps 4 or 5' deep. I only plan on keeping comets. But then, I don't know how wide that setup should be.

Thanks for any input.

 

[sissy]

Try you tube and they have so many ideas it will make your head spin .

 

[capewind]

welcome Dont have any pics for you to get ideas from, but wanted to ask if you have ever built a tie wall? It can be done, but am concerned that if you dont know how to build a tie wall, going a length of 12' to 15', with any height to it, you are going to have bowing problems from the weight of the water. It is NOT my intent to discourage you, again, it can be done... my questions are coming from the perspective of hubby owning a landscape company Since you are only one state away (we are on the Cape), thinking terminology is likely to be the same. A "landscape tie" or "landscape timber" is 3" x 5" with rounded edges, verses "traditional ties" or miscalled "railroad ties" are 5" x 5", 5.5" x 5.5" OR, 6" x 6"... you also have the option of pine or pressure treated. Here in the NE, the pine, while you may be told will last 15-20 years, dont believe it! Cut that time in half (they rot). The 40 yr PT ties will last a good 15-20 yrs, and is the way to go. Make sure they are NOT warped when you get them!!! Are you familiar with "timber locks"? much easier to use then the old spikes... sorry to go on and on here, but have seen a lot of major errors locally with people trying to build small ponds and retaining walls. Given the full costs of a pond, and fish "life", I just dont want to see you run into an issue IF you were not aware.

 

[gardengimp]

Curious - what is a timber lock and how is it used?

 

[capewind]

Here's a picture of a "TimberLok"... Hubby switched to these 10+++ years ago for tie walls. They are just as strong as the old half inch spikes, but instead of busting your arse with a sledge hammer to drive 10" of spike into a PT tie, these go in quick and easy with a cordless drill (have a spare battery ready). Whether spikes or timberloks, you want four per 8' tie, and he uses the 10" so it bites down into the lower course.

 

[JCschild]

[sup]wood and water dont mix well. you will be rebuilding it often, FYI timberlok scress spin out easy fine for lanscape i wouldnt consider them for building a pond thats trying to hold back 1000+ gals water[/sup]

 

[JCschild]

read this
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/9745-suggestions-for-2-foot-high-wall-on-pond/

 

[capewind]

JC, I have to disagree with you. If done CORRECTLY, it isnt an issue. PT ties are perfectly acceptable with a liner. 40 yr PT ties are used to hold back HILLS and will last 15-20 years of being in contact with the elements here in the north east. The ONLY concern I have is with the height he wants, over that length, which is what makes it imperative, that it is done correctly. You would LAUGH if you got a good look at our 10' long WOODEN framed QT pond in the basement. It was built out of SCRAP FRAMING LUMBER. I dont know what you have tried to do with TimberLoks, but in 10+++ yrs (when ever we first discovered them) of PROFESSIONAL USE (21 yrs on the books in landscape construction and house lifting), never had one strip or back out. LOVE THEM. They are MUCH more secure then the old spikes or carriage bolts.

 

[sissy]

Remember people that was old growth lumber and the stuff you get today is a lot younger and not treated as good .

 

[capewind]

Sissy, not understanding your post LOL.

 

[sissy]

If you look at the older log cabins or older wood sided house they are still holding up to the test of time .Look how many people are willing to pay for reclaimed wood .I know the guys who bought Dan River Mills in Danville VA and they are making all the wood there into new flooring and getting a good penny for it to .I know even lumber liquidators got hold of some of it and it is just the prettiest thing you ever saw .Also cut open a treated 6x6 and the treatment is usually only and inch or two in on the wood .Was told by the lumber mill here that is done to save time and money .Thats why it says on a lot of it you should treat the ends if you cut it so it does not rot or twist

 

[capewind]

oh, I understand where you are coming from now You have a point but are only part way there. Not only do you need to consider wood species for example, but which species are naturally (untreated) going to last longer than others. THEN add in pressure treatment. There is more than one method. Soaking or impregnated. Both methods have variances in their methods (soaking period and impregnation depth), which brings you to what is called its "retention value"... aka how much stress per cubic foot it can withstand, and for how long before fiber break down and eventual rot... I can go to the lumber yards and buy PINE, non pressure treated 6 x 6" timbers for $10 and $15. There is a def quality difference between the two... A high quality impregnated PT Hemlock timber of the same size, will cost $40 and $50 each, again with a range of quality. A NON treated HEMLOCK timber will also last longer, than a TREATED (either method), PINE timber. It that a little clearer?

 

[capewind]

Also, to give you another example or two...

a lot of older homes used red cedar shake shingles, but today, more folks are using white cedar shakes, and grade B at that, because it it cheaper up front... the red cedar shingles will last MUCH longer than the white.

my wood floors, I wanted red oak (like the color), but let the installer talk me into white oak instead, as it is stronger, and will look better longer... There is a wood hardness scale, but I am having a brain cramp and cant remember the name of it LOL.

 

[JCschild]

i have definately had issues with the tiberloks and thats with landscaping not even something as concerning as a pond.. the threads have spun out several times. (stripped if you will) but yes its still my choice to use (for landscaping)
PT has changed drastically in the last 5 yrs or so.. might be longer since they changed the chemicals allowed. (thanks tree huggers)
unless special order the only PT you get is pine and not even SYP #2. but crap pine and as mentioned often much smaller trees and not dried nearly enough (if at all).
as you know (if you do lanscaping professionally) that wet PT will warp, bow, check, shrink and get nice splits in it less than 6 months after finishing a job..

i have completely changed to using brick/block retaining wall etc (stone) for my landscaping, done with wood other than decks.. well ok fencing too but getting tired of restaining/painting already..


and FYI your pond is INDOORS...

 

[capewind]

Sounds like you need to harass some of the retailers in the area to get better quality products in. Here, we have both pine and hemlock in stock, treated and not treated, wet AND kiln dried. If all you have there is wet pine crap, I can fully understand your view. Calling it crap is being SUPER polite.

The QT tank is not built with timbers, so weather isnt the issue, just the WEIGHT... think household wall framing for a window, two top boards, two bottom boards, and ONE center board, about 5' on center (not 16" on center like a real wall) THAT is the main support. No where near as strong as timbers.