Attaching liner to boulders.

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My property is full of boulders. I have an approximately 14 ft by 4 ft area that slopes down hill, which is completely surrounded by large boulders. I have dug out the ground in this area between the boulders somewhat. But, what I would like to do is to run the liner up the sides of the boulders. In fact, since there is no ground 'ledge' it is the only way to line it. So

How do I attach the liner to the boulders?
What do I do at the end of the liner? I guess it can just end, but it would be nice to hide the transition.
Would I put padding between the liner and the boulders?

I plan to pump the water from the lowest elevation to the top boulder forming a waterfall effect.

Thank you for any advice.
 

addy1

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Welcome to our group!

Could you load some pictures so we can see what you are saying? Makes it easier to give our "expert" advice.
 
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i didnt understand but i love boulders and rocks :D
 
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I do this with concrete and will work for rock. Your first task is to find the where the water level will be.
1. Laser level can be rented. Mounted somewhere inside the pond you can shoot a level line all around the edge. Perfect for irregular rocks.

2. A water level are very accurate, even better than the laser when used correctly. This also work around corners in case you have some nooks the laser wouldn't reach.

3. A regular level. Start at one point and work your way around. Not very accurate but will get you in the ball park.

Now you can screw plastic wood to the rocks. I use landscape edging, either the 1" that bends a a little or the really thin stuff that comes in a roll. You can rip the stuff into 1.5" strips if you want to save some money and also it bends even better.

To screw.., on the level line with a masonry drill bit sized for the screws you drill holes. Concrete screws are used to attach the board. There are explosive guns that will shoot a nail into concrete but I sure wouldn't use it on rock. Simple concrete screws.

You can cut some short (2-4") pieces of the 1" think plastic and screw those to the rock spaced like 1 or 2' apart. Then you can screw the thin stuff to the 1" pieces. You can double up, or triple, or add as many layers of the thin stuff as you like. When you lay the liner there will be 1" gaps between the rock and thin stuff so you can tuck some liner down in there.

After you fill the pond and tweaked the liner you can can cap the line with some 1" stuff ripped to whatever width you need. It should bend OK, or you just have to use shorted pieces for tight bends.

There will be absolutely no weight on the liner if laid right. The boards just keep the liner edge from flopping over.

You have to counter sink the concrete screw heads into the 1" pieces. Use "truss" or "lath" screws (not the self drilling kind) for attaching the thin stuff to the 1" stuff. The heads will be no problem for EPDM liner (not sure what kind you're using). You can screw through layers of the thin stuff in between where attached to the 1" stuff in order to make it stiffer.

For EPDM you don't need to adding padding, but better safe than sorry. You can screw it to the board if needed.

Sounds like a fun project.

Resist the desire to "glue" and "goop" the liner to the rock. Seen it a lot by first time DIYers.
 

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It really depends on the size of the "boulders". If they are large enough some creative use of terminal strips might suffice, but anything to this point is purely guesswork without knowing exactly what will be dealt with.
 
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Thank you for all your responses. I was hoping not to have to goop up the boulders with glue in case the whole idea doesn't work and I have to convert it into a rock garden, so I like the strips idea. Not sure the pictures do it justice. I have a huge collection of rocks of all sizes that I'm going to use to line the bottom. The steep drop from the top boulder will be covered in rocks and the water will trickle down over it into the pond area at the bottom.

This has been a vision for me for years. Maybe I need to invest in a professional to do it.
 

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Meyer Jordan

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Thank you for all your responses. I was hoping not to have to goop up the boulders with glue in case the whole idea doesn't work and I have to convert it into a rock garden, so I like the strips idea. Not sure the pictures do it justice. I have a huge collection of rocks of all sizes that I'm going to use to line the bottom. The steep drop from the top boulder will be covered in rocks and the water will trickle down over it into the pond area at the bottom.

This has been a vision for me for years. Maybe I need to invest in a professional to do it.

As I originally suspected. Although liner can indeed be attached to these boulders, the real question is will doing so create something that will be pleasant to look at and trouble-free. if so, at what cost.
If I were still in the pond crafting business, I would quote you a price of removing the boulders, installing the pond and then returning the boulders to their original positions, if that is what you wanted. This would be overall less expensive and the final product would possess considerably more structural integrity.
I would strongly advise consulting with a professional..
 
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very nice landscape , it doesnot look that difficult , you can add 1 foot soil (mixed with larger gravel) then install liner as normally its done then nail the corners with small knobs stoppers on to the rocks , it doesnt need to be water tight as water level can be kept b lower , add more soil on sides so its border is higher then middle , if there is need of sealing linner on rocks , you can apply silicon glue .
 
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I'd be cautious dealing with pond professionals. Virtually all build one type of pond over and over. They're likely to try and convince you to build whatever type of pond they build. It's not dishonest, they just think whatever type of pond they build is best and have no experience with the type of pond you want so they rarely can see what you see.

And yes, the standard method is to bring in heavy equipment, scape the site, build whatever type of pond they build and try and re-use some of the rocks. It will look man made, nice, but man made. Natural is more beautiful imo. And of course way, way cheaper.

For sure this would be likely the first time any professional ever tried this kind of setup, working with keeping existing rock in place. IMO you're actually better off doing the work yourself. Pretty easy actually because you don't have to dig much or move big rocks and you keep the beautiful natural look, which like you said, remains valuable if later you want to remove the pond. Screw holes are easy to fill and hide.

If you don't want to screw into the rock you can build a wall instead. You can pound plastic wood stakes into the ground a little (doesn't have to far, a couple inches) right against the rocks, every 12-24" say. The stakes can lean outward and basically lean against the rock. Then shoot your level line and screw the horizontal strips to the stakes. Stake tops can be sawed off flush. This method is tricky as the horizontal board will want to pull inward and something has to be figured out to stop that.

A better option, but one that unfortunately scares many people, is to use rebar. Like 1/2" or larger for the stakes. Thicker = longer it lasts because it will rust at the ground. Then use thin rebar (#2, #3) for the horizontal tied to the vertical using rebar wire. Liner can go over the horizontal and attached to the horizontal after filled with water if needed. If enough liner goes over the horizontal and tucked far enough down the water pressure will be more than enough to keep it in place. The only tricky part is bending the horizontal bar to conform to the rock but it's actually pretty easy to get good at it fast with a bender tool and doesn't take a lot of muscle. Rebar won't want to pull stakes inward and it's generally much easier to pound rebar into even rocky soil so you can get those in deeper. I'd cut the tops of stakes at the level line before adding the horizontal. If a stake gets pounded in too far you can just wire another vertical to it to extend the height to the level line. Wiring the second piece also has the advantage of not requiring cutting the stakes which is tricky, but a little more cost for rebar, but probably less than $20. Thinner rebar can be used for the vertical extenders.

You do have to fill in behind the stakes with soil, concrete, rock to create a surface to back the liner when filled with water, but you have to do this no matter what. I'd use rocks if some are around, or concrete bricks. A little mortar skim coat over the face to finish. Easier to remove than solid concrete later, if needed.

One place a professional might be able to help is someone who makes fake rock. They can match the existing rock and make a little cap to go over liner edge and down below the future water level. That will hide the liner edge and the illusion will be complete even if you don't get the edge perfectly level. Between the rocks soil can be backed filled to the edge and plants can cover the liner there with maybe a little fake rock edging.

Would be gorgeous. I encourage you to try...not as hard as it might seem. Take your time and if some piece isn't perfect just toss it and try again. Look at it as the price of learning and you'll see it as cheap.
 
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u just need to create a shallow channel from soil gravel stones then lay liner on it , have borders higher then the middle , if u can erect liner border on the boulder few inches from screws nails then later on hide the edges with more bigger rocks touching the boulders that will secure and hide linner it will give illusion that water is touching the boulders and no gap , create few shallow pools and deeper channel in middle for all the steam as it is easy to create prominent flow on narrow area .

looks very interesting project i wish i cud come and start working lol , natural beauty ! i wudnt move the rocks either , u can work ur way around it easily thats skill and creativity , just buy a liner and start working uil see it will adjust it self when u lay it , do have layer of loos soil and stones at bottom and sides of all the stream , it wil help u manage the slope and height of water also will help u secure liner to keep it intact , it will b difficult to work on solid hard ground .

few eg

How to make a Waterfall - Landscaping Ideas - Part 1 - YouTube

How to Build a Waterfall and Stream Part 1 - YouTube

How to Build a Waterfall and Stream Part 3 - YouTube

HOW TO BUILD NATURAL GARDEN STREAM WITH WATERFALL+LIGHT+CROSS PATH+BOULDERS+LINER+POND-PUMP+FEATURES - YouTube

How to build a stream to look natural - YouTube
 
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